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Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

pnas.org

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Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#21

Post by vslira »

I’m writing the following in jest, before anyone takes this seriously, as I assume this kind of correlation has been accounted for.

Maybe the causation is reversed: people who go out more are more frequently infected with all kinds of bugs, from getting too intimate with strangers to eating stuff that was prepared by someone not too assiduous in their hand washing - a sibling reply mentioning fecal microbiota transplant comes to mind

I know this article is about bugs that cause anxiety, but maybe they just lose the competition in a gut environment with the social bugs

People who stay at home are less infected, thus the correlation with these gut specimens

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#23

Post by kenjackson »

pogue wrote: post #19

I've seen probiotic supplements that have strains that claim to help with anxiety and depression, but I've never really looked into them because I'm quite skeptical they do anything. But if anyone is familiar with them and has any feedback I'd be interested to hear it.

Strongly second this ask.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#24

Post by theptip »

jjk166 wrote: post #16

I think it makes sense that our microbiome should be able to trigger such a response. If your microbiome is changing, it means that some microbe is gaining numbers it didn't previously have, and your current bodily functions, such as your immune system, aren't stopping it. That doesn't necessarily mean your immune system is compromised, but if it is then it would probably be good not to spend a lot of time around oth…

The problem with Evolutionary Psychology is that it’s easy to construct this sort of “just so” story for pretty much any causal link, and they are not falsifiable.

IMO the simpler hypothesis here is that this isn’t anything adaptive, it’s just another example of how biology is like spaghetti code; changing one chemical signal will affect an essentially random set of downstream systems, some of which can be causally connected to psychology/behavior.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#25

Post by im3w1l »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #9
ngruhn wrote: post #4

This is gonna go viral as: just eat more yogurt to stop being awkward or whatever.

The experiment looked to be the other way around. If you introduced new microbiota from patients with SAD this caused SAD in mice. So introducing new microbiota won’t solve the problem. The theory that needs to be tested is that we know microbiota can switch SAD on, but does removal of said microbiota turn it off? It needs to be an antibiotic cleansing. It can even be DIY. People can try this on themselves. I think t…

Introducing new microbiota will put competitive pressure on the old one, so I wouldn't write it off with out trying.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#26

Post by cwmoore »

kenjackson wrote: post #23
pogue wrote: post #19

I've seen probiotic supplements that have strains that claim to help with anxiety and depression, but I've never really looked into them because I'm quite skeptical they do anything. But if anyone is familiar with them and has any feedback I'd be interested to hear it.

Strongly second this ask.

So long as it isn’t eating the variety of fresh fruits and vegetables that produce gut serotonin in the microbial breakdown of complex carbohydrates and fiber, right?

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#27

Post by troll_v_bridge »

theptip wrote: post #24
jjk166 wrote: post #16

I think it makes sense that our microbiome should be able to trigger such a response. If your microbiome is changing, it means that some microbe is gaining numbers it didn't previously have, and your current bodily functions, such as your immune system, aren't stopping it. That doesn't necessarily mean your immune system is compromised, but if it is then it would probably be good not to spend a lot of time around oth…

The problem with Evolutionary Psychology is that it’s easy to construct this sort of “just so” story for pretty much any causal link, and they are not falsifiable. IMO the simpler hypothesis here is that this isn’t anything adaptive, it’s just another example of how biology is like spaghetti code; changing one chemical signal will affect an essentially random set of downstream systems, some of which can be causally c…

Which would still be natural selection though.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#28

Post by bluefirebrand »

jadamson wrote: post #6
ngruhn wrote: post #4

This is gonna go viral as: just eat more yogurt to stop being awkward or whatever.

Yoghurts probably won't help, but Fecal Microbiota Transplantation might. A team at the University of Calgary is currently recruiting participants with Major Depressive Disorder and Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder: https://research.ucalgary.ca/participate/clinical-trial-eval... https://research.ucalgary.ca/participate/focused-study-fmt-o...

Damn, that's my city and I have been struggling with some other stuff

I don't fall under the umbrella of Major Depressive or OCD but if they were doing trials to help anxiety or something I would probably sign up

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#30

Post by bhaney »

pogue wrote: post #19

I've seen probiotic supplements that have strains that claim to help with anxiety and depression, but I've never really looked into them because I'm quite skeptical they do anything. But if anyone is familiar with them and has any feedback I'd be interested to hear it.

Whether or not the effect in the paper turns out to be true and reproducible, the supplements you've seen almost certainly don't do anything unless you're wiping out your established gut microbiota with antibiotics first. Your existing microbiota are entrenched and in a very good position to defend themselves from any weakened intruders you might intentionally introduce. Meanwhile, supplement companies really like to make exaggerated claims.
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