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Ubisoft: PC Piracy Levels 95%, and 95% of Free-To-Play Users Do Not Pay

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Re: Ubisoft: PC Piracy Levels 95%, and 95% of Free-To-Play Users Do Not Pay

#31

Post by nnnnnnnn »

citricsquid wrote: post #19

I cannot understand the responses from people here and on reddit stating that the figure is totally made up and it can't be that much. reddit specifically is filled with people who are proud of how they pirate all ubisoft games because of the "terrible DRM". Indie games that have no DRM and great prices[1] have reported very high piracy rates, published games that have no DRM and very high ratings also have bad pirac…

I think a reasonable view is:

A] Unauthorized copying is rampant. B] This is not a problem; profitable business exists regardless.

The most interesting part of the above statistic in my mind is how it shows heavyhanded copy controls have absolutely no effect. So you may as well not bother.

The software industry is not and has never been under an existential threat from unauthorized copying. These numbers are solid evidence that it is possible to have a booming, profitable software industry despite a 95% unauthorized copying rate.

Re: Ubisoft: PC Piracy Levels 95%, and 95% of Free-To-Play Users Do Not Pay

#32

Post by pdovy »

Taking them at their word on their statistics (seems reasonable as citricsquid pointed out based on interviews with the World of Goo developers and CD Projekt), I wonder how that would look broken down by country.

That is to say, is piracy really that rampant in the US, or are these numbers inflated by distribution in countries where games/movies are pirated and sold in hard copy form on the street or in shops? Which is worse for piracy, the ability to anonymously download the game via bittorrent, or being able to feel psuedo-legitimate about paying real money to a real person on the street or in a shop for a burned copy?

Re: Ubisoft: PC Piracy Levels 95%, and 95% of Free-To-Play Users Do Not Pay

#33

Post by debacle »

astrodust wrote: post #10
debacle wrote: post #2

Ergo, 95% of your users are not your customers.

It could be that a lot of customers buy the boxed product, then install the warez version because it doesn't have any DRM associated with it. This doesn't clarify how they know the games are pirated. Ubisoft is one of the worst offenders lately when it comes to treating their customers like criminals. Even products bought through Steam have all kinds of added on DRM and CD-Key nonsense.

I was speaking specifically of the F2P users.

Pirates are neither users not customers.

Re: Ubisoft: PC Piracy Levels 95%, and 95% of Free-To-Play Users Do Not Pay

#34

Post by amalcon »

citricsquid wrote: post #19

I cannot understand the responses from people here and on reddit stating that the figure is totally made up and it can't be that much. reddit specifically is filled with people who are proud of how they pirate all ubisoft games because of the "terrible DRM". Indie games that have no DRM and great prices[1] have reported very high piracy rates, published games that have no DRM and very high ratings also have bad pirac…

The problem is that "gamers" are not a monolithic group. People say contradictory things not because of cognitive dissonance, but because they disagree. As with most issues, there are more than two sides to this one.

Re: Ubisoft: PC Piracy Levels 95%, and 95% of Free-To-Play Users Do Not Pay

#35

Post by bunderbunder »

zobzu wrote: post #11

I'd like to know which magic hat the 95% comes from as usual. I pay for most PC games and so do my friends. I highly doubt we're in the 5%. Feels like a classic "the subject is not the percentage" in order to make everyone comfortable with "95%". I also highly dislike DLCs. Usually they're required to keep up in online games (else you're at unfair disadvantage), or they're just fixing bugs/adding stuff that should ha…

> Make the game $5, I'll buy it and so will everyone.

That assumes that most people are pirating just because they think the game's too expensive.

- If someone pirates games because their parents don't want to drive them to the store and they don't have a credit card for buying games online, then dropping the price to $5 won't change anything for them.

- If someone pirates games because they've gotten so used to doing it that the idea of going to a store never even crosses their mind, then dropping the price to $5 won't change anything for them.

- If someone pirates games because they don't want to shell out for a complete unknown, then dropping the price to $5 won't change much for them.

That last one is one I'd like to unpack, too. Even assuming Ubi's 95% figure is correct, that presumably comes from just counting individuals. According to that metric, someone who pirates a game because there's no demo and plays it for ten minutes before deleting counts as just as much of a pirate as someone who steals the game and then plays it 4 hours a day for months. And someone who pirates it and plays for an hour before deciding to buy it is counted as both a legitimate buyer and a pirate.

I'd be much more interested to know what percentage of play hours are logged on pirated vs. legitimate copies of a game. I realize that's not in line with most game makers' pay models, but I suspect it would still turn out to be instructive.

Re: Ubisoft: PC Piracy Levels 95%, and 95% of Free-To-Play Users Do Not Pay

#36

Post by AnIrishDuck »

citricsquid wrote: post #19

I cannot understand the responses from people here and on reddit stating that the figure is totally made up and it can't be that much. reddit specifically is filled with people who are proud of how they pirate all ubisoft games because of the "terrible DRM". Indie games that have no DRM and great prices[1] have reported very high piracy rates, published games that have no DRM and very high ratings also have bad pirac…

> A] Piracy is not a problem.

Piracy is a problem without a clear-cut solution. It is a modern incarnation of the classic free rider problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem).

> B] DRM causes piracy

I have been tempted to pirate games with onerous DRM (I haven't). That said, I think that DRM is a common excuse that pirates use to justify their actions.

The point I'd like to make is that DRM and piracy rates have no correlation . The only legitimate purpose that DRM serves is to interfere with launch-day piracy. Once a product has been cracked, it only hampers legitimate customers. And there is no uncrackable DRM.

The always-on DRM that companies like Ubi love to use just rubs salt in the wound. Now I, a paying customer, have to be connected to the internet 24/7 to play your game? When pirates don't? What's next, are you going to hire a goon to monitor me and protect your precious intellectual property?

EDIT: I want Ubi to stop putting barriers between me and their products. I'd even be fine with steam DRM, but they need to cut the umbilical cord and let me play their games.

Re: Ubisoft: PC Piracy Levels 95%, and 95% of Free-To-Play Users Do Not Pay

#37

Post by elarkin »

zobzu wrote: post #11

I'd like to know which magic hat the 95% comes from as usual. I pay for most PC games and so do my friends. I highly doubt we're in the 5%. Feels like a classic "the subject is not the percentage" in order to make everyone comfortable with "95%". I also highly dislike DLCs. Usually they're required to keep up in online games (else you're at unfair disadvantage), or they're just fixing bugs/adding stuff that should ha…

The original article hinted at the reason for your views.

Firstly, the 95% piracy rate they are reporting is worldwide, not the rate of piracy in the USA.

In the USA, piracy rates have never been all that high, but cart yourself over to China or Singapore and you find people selling pirated software/music/whatever on the street corners.

Re: Ubisoft: PC Piracy Levels 95%, and 95% of Free-To-Play Users Do Not Pay

#38

Post by franzus »

citricsquid wrote: post #19

I cannot understand the responses from people here and on reddit stating that the figure is totally made up and it can't be that much. reddit specifically is filled with people who are proud of how they pirate all ubisoft games because of the "terrible DRM". Indie games that have no DRM and great prices[1] have reported very high piracy rates, published games that have no DRM and very high ratings also have bad pirac…

> I don't understand what gamers want from companies like Ubisoft?

The average gamer being in his teens I would say gamers don't know what they want. But in the end it boils down to: free stuff.

Re: Ubisoft: PC Piracy Levels 95%, and 95% of Free-To-Play Users Do Not Pay

#39

Post by elarkin »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #27
citricsquid wrote: post #19

I cannot understand the responses from people here and on reddit stating that the figure is totally made up and it can't be that much. reddit specifically is filled with people who are proud of how they pirate all ubisoft games because of the "terrible DRM". Indie games that have no DRM and great prices[1] have reported very high piracy rates, published games that have no DRM and very high ratings also have bad pirac…

> I don't understand what gamers want from companies like Ubisoft? It's just like music: 1. AAA titles without paying a cent 2. Innovation, but not too much (being a newbie is a cardinal sin, remember?) 3. No DLC, just free content released periodically afterwards Piracy does quite a number on people with existing entitlement issues.

This isn't entirely an issue of greedy people having feelings of entitlement.

Like many of you all, I do not know of anyone who pirates software, movies or music (ever since I graduated college) anymore. That's because the piracy rates in the US are much reduced compared to elsewhere in the world. International publishers, like Ubisoft, then feel that if they are going to sell their products in these high-piracy areas that they need to protect it. Then, because they have to protect it from the pirates elsewhere, they give us a crippled product in the US.

If Ubisoft thought of its customers strictly as Americans, they would not have implemented all the crazy DRM stuff they have today.

Regardless of whether you believe Ubisoft is justified in pursuing DRM at all costs like they have, the issue is /not/ primarily one of entitlement.

http://portal.bsa.org/globalpiracy2011/

Re: Ubisoft: PC Piracy Levels 95%, and 95% of Free-To-Play Users Do Not Pay

#40

Post by Bro_Merch »

Half on subject. Just a note about fair pricing:

I downloaded my first pirated copy of anything ever the other day and this is why.

My son is playing LEGO star wars. He asks me how to advance and I tell him I don't know. He asks, "haven't you seen the movie?" I say yes, would you like to? Of course he says yes.

I set out to find a Star Wars (a new hope). Can you buy from iTunes? No. Netflix have it? No. And so on. The only option was Amazon who only had it as a super deluxe diamond ultra edition box set for more more digits worth of money than I was willing to spend on a movie that I saw in theater for less than $5. Things need to be reasonably priced for reasonable people to pay for them.

According to apple I (or my wife) have purchased 261 mobile apps. Most for real money.

I think the best business model I've encountered from a revenue point of view was a chess game that came in two varieties. There wasn't free to pay or pay to play (reg & lite), there was $1.99 and $6.99 (reg & pro), the second just being much more featured. I bought both. No upgrade option. Bought both outright, because $2 is a reasonable gamble and $7 more is reasonable for a game I know I like.

I wonder how the developer is doing.

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