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Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

nature.com

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Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#31

Post by dxuh »

cookiengineer wrote: post #21
john_minsk wrote: post #4

Just went trough Yo-Yo. Any good strategies on how to overcome it for good?

It's not about the weight, it's about the exercise. Start with something easy and establish a rule that won't ever be broken. If you break a rule once, you'll lose the fight. My rule, for example, when I started to train more: - start with 10 crunches every morning and evening - increase by 2 crunches every day - no exceptions When you are at ~2 months in, you can add weight training to it to get stronger. Additional…

Have you actually lost weight like that? I think exercise is a huge trap for weight loss. Cardio exercise makes you healthy, but it will also make you hungry. Especially if you are not used to it. Overweight people are usually already overeating. They can't deal with hunger and cravings well. If you make them do cardio, they will likely eat back whatever they burned and most likely much more. And even if they don't, they were already overeating, so chances are high you are not in a caloric deficit still. I have lost a lot of weight (30kg) three times now (gained some of it back every time unfortunately) and I think there is much truth to "You don’t lose weight at the gym, you lose weight in the kitchen.".

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#32

Post by pif »

anon373839 wrote: post #28
paulpauper wrote: post #9

The more you research/learn about obesity, the worse it is, much like smoking. One of the most depressing stats is that dieting does not get easier with time. The probability of eventually regaining all the weight eventually converges to 100%. Even if you're successful for 2 years, people still regain by year 4, 5, etc. The body never resists trying to regain the weight. GLP-1 drugs are the best hope yet.

This is self-defeating and untrue. Many people, myself included, have kept weight off for decades. But you don’t get there by thinking of your new lifestyle as “dieting”. You need to learn to love eating healthy foods in a healthy amount, and getting exercise. Eventually you can get to a place where the old foods and habits are simply unappealing.

> in a healthy amount

That's the crux! Constant hunger starts nagging me as soon as I try. I've tried several times for several months, with nice results from the weight's points of view, but I never got to the point where my quality of life globally increased, and that was always due to the constant hunger.

I'll only retry when I'll have found a way to stop the hunger now.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#33

Post by janpmz »

janpmz wrote: post #23
john_minsk wrote: post #4

Just went trough Yo-Yo. Any good strategies on how to overcome it for good?

For me weightloss worked over a long period of time with a couple of strategies. 1. One was not eating breakfast, this works well when I'm in the office. Then you have fasting built into your daily routine. This has many metabolic benefits. 2. Switching to a low carb diet (keto). I never thought I'd quit eating bread, but reducing carbonhydrates (esp. sugar) and eating more eggs & meat had the biggest effect on my we…

I don't understand why I get downvotes for that. Those are the things I did in the past two years to get to my dream weight and hold it without yoyo effect.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#34

Post by sethammons »

paulpauper wrote: post #11
spoiler wrote: post #2

As someone who's struggled with weight loss, and have known others to struggle with it well, I think we colloquially called this "slow metabolism". It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. I was recently sent a video about fat adaptation (basically teaching your body to be better at burning fat) by a very fit friend, but I wonder how much o…

metabolism is orthogonal . It's possible to have a fast metabolism and still be obese if you're eating at a surplus. But it's also possible people with faster metabolisms may be more successful at weight loss if already obese. So a 300-lbs person who eats 10,000 calories/day to be weight stable will find it easier to lose weight compared to to a 300 lbs person who is stable at 4,000 cal/day. This can also explain how…

10k calories a day is what a black bear eats preparing for hibernation. And it is what Michael Phelps would eat daily when training in the pool for hours on end.

Obese people can remain obese eating 1000 calories a day. I recall one episode of My 600lb Life and the show's featured person that day was at 900 or 1200 calories a day and still didn't lose weight. Might have still been gaining.

It is a dynamic system. People tend to only consider the CI in CI/CO.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#35

Post by senko »

Etheryte wrote: post #27
bsder wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fat cells only turn over about 20% per year. You basically need to maintain a reduced weight for 5 years before the fat cells "forget" the higher weight. If you come off it before that 5 years are up, yeah, you are probably expected to bounce back somewhat. You might not need to be on GLP-1 forever, but you might need to be on it longer than people currently think.

Do you happen to have a reference for that or a specific link to learn more? That sounds oddly specific.

Was also interested and a quick search for "human fat cells turnover time years" returned a few research papers that quote 10% a year.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#36

Post by ykonstant »

sethammons wrote: post #34
paulpauper wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

metabolism is orthogonal . It's possible to have a fast metabolism and still be obese if you're eating at a surplus. But it's also possible people with faster metabolisms may be more successful at weight loss if already obese. So a 300-lbs person who eats 10,000 calories/day to be weight stable will find it easier to lose weight compared to to a 300 lbs person who is stable at 4,000 cal/day. This can also explain how…

10k calories a day is what a black bear eats preparing for hibernation. And it is what Michael Phelps would eat daily when training in the pool for hours on end. Obese people can remain obese eating 1000 calories a day. I recall one episode of My 600lb Life and the show's featured person that day was at 900 or 1200 calories a day and still didn't lose weight. Might have still been gaining. It is a dynamic system. Peo…

>Obese people can remain obese eating 1000 calories a day. I recall one episode of My 600lb Life and the show's featured person that day was at 900 or 1200 calories a day and still didn't lose weight. Might have still been gaining.

How is that possible? There is a lower bound on calories needed (on average across say six months) to maintain life. Adding to that the calories needed to maintain the weight, I don't see how an obese person could stay alive with "CO" significantly lower than 1200 kcal.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#37

Post by senko »

cookiengineer wrote: post #21
john_minsk wrote: post #4

Just went trough Yo-Yo. Any good strategies on how to overcome it for good?

It's not about the weight, it's about the exercise. Start with something easy and establish a rule that won't ever be broken. If you break a rule once, you'll lose the fight. My rule, for example, when I started to train more: - start with 10 crunches every morning and evening - increase by 2 crunches every day - no exceptions When you are at ~2 months in, you can add weight training to it to get stronger. Additional…

> It's not about the weight, it's about the exercise.

You cannot outrun a fork.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#38

Post by dsmurrell »

spoiler wrote: post #2

As someone who's struggled with weight loss, and have known others to struggle with it well, I think we colloquially called this "slow metabolism". It always did feel like it was easier to gain weight than lose it, especially fat weight and not muscle weight for me. I was recently sent a video about fat adaptation (basically teaching your body to be better at burning fat) by a very fit friend, but I wonder how much o…

Please share your bro science video. I need it :)

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#39

Post by cookiengineer »

dxuh wrote: post #31
cookiengineer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the weight, it's about the exercise. Start with something easy and establish a rule that won't ever be broken. If you break a rule once, you'll lose the fight. My rule, for example, when I started to train more: - start with 10 crunches every morning and evening - increase by 2 crunches every day - no exceptions When you are at ~2 months in, you can add weight training to it to get stronger. Additional…

Have you actually lost weight like that? I think exercise is a huge trap for weight loss. Cardio exercise makes you healthy, but it will also make you hungry. Especially if you are not used to it. Overweight people are usually already overeating. They can't deal with hunger and cravings well. If you make them do cardio, they will likely eat back whatever they burned and most likely much more. And even if they don't,…

I mean, the ranges of a European mentioning that they are overweight compared to the US are of course very different. What is overweight here counts as normal over there.

I am currently at around ~120kg and my "goal weight" was around that area. I still have a tummy that I am not satisfied with, but my legs are mostly muscles due to me cycling a lot. I sold my car on purpose to force me to cycle in bad weather.

Currently I am also trying out a more hardcore exercise program because I never gained a lot of muscles in the past, even when I was doing MMA training 6 times a week.

I'm probably stating the obvious here: muscles weigh more than fat, meaning you'll always gain weight before you can lose weight. I mentioned the 2-3 months time span because that's (for me) when it switched, and my body suddenly had it easier to get into calories burning mode.

Suffice it to say: I don't eat nor drink any sweets, not even in my muesli. No artificial sweeteners either. I replaced sweets with fruits in my muesli, for example. And I just drink water, because soft drinks are the human brain's enemy.

The decision to not eat nor drink anything sweet is important, I think, because it helps me go into calories burning mode much faster with much less calories.

Re: Adipose tissue retains an epigenetic memory of obesity after weight loss

#40

Post by eftpotrm »

ykonstant wrote: post #36
sethammons wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10k calories a day is what a black bear eats preparing for hibernation. And it is what Michael Phelps would eat daily when training in the pool for hours on end. Obese people can remain obese eating 1000 calories a day. I recall one episode of My 600lb Life and the show's featured person that day was at 900 or 1200 calories a day and still didn't lose weight. Might have still been gaining. It is a dynamic system. Peo…

>Obese people can remain obese eating 1000 calories a day. I recall one episode of My 600lb Life and the show's featured person that day was at 900 or 1200 calories a day and still didn't lose weight. Might have still been gaining. How is that possible? There is a lower bound on calories needed (on average across say six months) to maintain life. Adding to that the calories needed to maintain the weight, I don't see…

And yet it happens. A doctor in my family told the story of a patient they were treating in hospital who medically needed to lose weight, and who they found unable to get any reduction until they dropped below _200_ calories a day.

Metabolism is _significantly_ more complex than CI/CO, from experience.

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