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Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

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Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#31

Post by russdill »

skykooler wrote: post #18
russdill wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're traveling 300 miles, cargo capacity is pretty important. I feel like this is sacrificing a great deal of what people actually need for a "feature" that is a bit of a solution in search of a problem.

The trunk in the Aptera is actually pretty huge, it's like six feet deep. What's mainly sacrificed is passenger capacity since it's only a 2-seater.

It claims 25 cubit feet which is large but not certainly not huge. It's shaped in such a way that much of that isn't as useful as you'd hope. A fair amount of that area is at or below 12 inches in depth.

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#32

Post by walrus01 »

nindalf wrote: post #30
trhway wrote: post #13

300-545 watts. Aptera gets 8 miles/KWh (to compare - my Prius and other EV cars get about 3+ miles/KWh). So they get 2.5-4.5 miles from an hour under the Sun. So 20-40 miles during the time of commute and while parked at work. So, yes, that Trump's idea he expressed in the interview to Musk back then to plaster cars with solar panels isn't totally meaningless, at least in theory - you can have 2-3x solar panels on re…

The price of solar panels isn’t static though. It might not have made sense in 2015 or 2020 or even 2025. But solar panels continue to get cheaper, so it might eventually get to a point where it’s a serious idea. Even if it costs a couple thousand extra, the panels will pay for themselves by giving you basically free commutes forever.

Solar panels get cheaper but the total amount of square meters on a vehicle that you can cover with them remains the same. In something the size of this car if I were purchasing PV cells for it, I would be optimizing by far for STC watt per square cm, not $/watt.

$/watt STC is more for big roof and ground mount PV financial calculations.

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#33

Post by trhway »

nindalf wrote: post #30
trhway wrote: post #13

300-545 watts. Aptera gets 8 miles/KWh (to compare - my Prius and other EV cars get about 3+ miles/KWh). So they get 2.5-4.5 miles from an hour under the Sun. So 20-40 miles during the time of commute and while parked at work. So, yes, that Trump's idea he expressed in the interview to Musk back then to plaster cars with solar panels isn't totally meaningless, at least in theory - you can have 2-3x solar panels on re…

The price of solar panels isn’t static though. It might not have made sense in 2015 or 2020 or even 2025. But solar panels continue to get cheaper, so it might eventually get to a point where it’s a serious idea. Even if it costs a couple thousand extra, the panels will pay for themselves by giving you basically free commutes forever.

mainly it isn't the price of solar panels. How do you put it on the car's curved metal panels (or you're going to redesign the car into something like Cybertruck?) without worsening aerodynamics, without much additional holes and additional weight and in the way that will hold the panels for the next 7-10 years, rain, snow or shine while these panels wouldn't get easily damaged by carwash, etc., and you also need to put all these wires in some sensible way to minimize risk of various failures and repairs and you'd have to price in additional warranty service for all that additional stuff ... so it is a large and expensive thing to put into mass production.

>Even if it costs a couple thousand extra, the panels will pay for themselves by giving you basically free commutes forever.

Say you get 1.5KW, 3x of best Aptera, 8 hours, 12KWh, i.e. about $3.60/day or it can be thought as a replacement of 1 gallon of gas (at 30% efficiency), still $4. Thus $1000/year. And i don't think the feature can be put into cars at $2K. More like $3-$5K optimistically.

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#34

Post by rcxdude »

trhway wrote: post #22
quailfarmer wrote: post #19

What's new here? College kids have been doing this since the 90s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Solar_Challenge

Some look close to like a real car, that one EV + solar, 25miles/KWh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNSW_Sunswift#/media/File:Suns... I'd venture a guess - Aptera went for 3 wheeler because certification as a motorcycle is much easier than as a 4-wheel car. Unfortunately 3 wheels - 3 vertical columns resisting the upcoming air - may be less aerodynamic than 4 wheels which are only 2 vertical columns resisting the upco…

There's two different classes in the WSC - one is basically 'make a race car' with very little view to practicality, most of the rules are about limiting the competitive speed to be below the speed limit and having some semblance of safety. Entries to this one are almost always 3 wheeled because it's optimal from an efficiency point of view (aerodynamics and rolling resistance). (Two-wheeled designs are not allowed). The other class (which the car you linked entered under) is meant to be a bit closer to a practical vehicle, and one of the rules is that it needs to have four wheels. It also is allowed a larger battery, which can be charged at certain points during the race (the other class starts with a fully charged battery but it's nowhere near enough for the race, and only solar power is allowed from that point on).

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#36

Post by rcxdude »

quailfarmer wrote: post #19

What's new here? College kids have been doing this since the 90s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Solar_Challenge

Having worked on one of the cars for this, I don't think solar panels on cars actually makes much sense for useful cars. If you can put them on cheaply enough, then they are maybe a nice free boost in some circumstances, but the compromises in the design needed to get the efficiencies necessary for solar panels on the car to power the car are quite extreme.

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#37

Post by rcxdude »

nindalf wrote: post #29
LeoPanthera wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50 miles of free driving a day sounds incredible, but you're implying that's a bad thing? I'm confused.

With how cheap solar panels are getting, why not slap a few of them on the roof of every EV? Some days they get you 10 free miles, other days 20 or 30. If you’re a commuter, you’re basically driving for free at that point. Sure it’s not enough on road trips, but why is that a problem?

The solar cells themselves may be cheap, I don't think putting them on the roof of a car (without ruining the aerodynamics) is particularly cheap, yet. Most people would be better served putting the solar panels on the roof of their house.

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#38

Post by tecleandor »

russdill wrote: post #31
skykooler wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trunk in the Aptera is actually pretty huge, it's like six feet deep. What's mainly sacrificed is passenger capacity since it's only a 2-seater.

It claims 25 cubit feet which is large but not certainly not huge. It's shaped in such a way that much of that isn't as useful as you'd hope. A fair amount of that area is at or below 12 inches in depth.

Well, it's not "remodeling your house" big, but in 25 cubic feet you can fit 15-20 cabin size suitcases. That sounds like "family vacations" big.

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#39

Post by masklinn »

jore wrote: post #28

there was a German startup (Sono Sion) some years ago that had a very similar idea and had even prototypes [0], but they filed for insolvency 2-3 years ago. Now I think they pivoted to something more boring and practical - putting solar panels on vehicles. I hope aptera gets to production though [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sono_Motors_Sion

There’s also Lightyear. But so far the Zero (formerly One) ran into the ground after a barely existent production run, and the Two I’m not sure exists in any way.

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#40

Post by tromp »

arrakark wrote: post #3

I think Aptera's vision is fantastic. People are quick to judge the looks or three-wheelness of the car, but I think that's just a symptom of cars being marketed as status symbols nowadays. I am worried about production. With all of the years it's taking them to get there, they can run out of money at any time it seems. It's unknown if they can raise enough money on their terms to get this thing to production.

I love everything about this design except for how much the front wheels stick out. Especially here in Europe where roads are narrow and parking spaces can be tight, I'd worry about those wheels hitting things or scratching curbs. But even ignoring the front wheels, I agree ordering from this company with no guaranteed medium (let alone long) term viability would be a big gamble.
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