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Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

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Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#21

Post by Earw0rm »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #16
pinkmuffinere wrote: post #12

> Even on an overcast day, the team saw over 545 watts of solar input Let’s (generously) assume that was the minimum they saw, and let’s (generously) say they charged for 14 hours. That’s 7.63 kWh gained over the day, in almost ideal conditions. Flagstaff’s high altitude means stronger sunlight, and they can do regenerative braking as they come down the mountain. In my Nissan leaf, 6 kWh would get me about 20 miles.…

Have you looked at the thing? I wouldn't be surprised if it's an order of magnitude more efficient than most electric cars out there.

The energy dynamics will be closer to a heavy ebike or light motorcycle.

500-600 watts is plenty for moving along at 30-40mph, and with such a light bodyshell, you don't want to be going a lot faster than that.

Standard automobiles are something of a vicious cycle energy-wise - weight, range and speed aren't a linear relationship, so on short-range trips we're paying a huge efficiency penalty for long-range capability. Golf buggies, ebikes and so on can be 1/10th the weight and 1/10th the energy consumption.

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#22

Post by trhway »

quailfarmer wrote: post #19

What's new here? College kids have been doing this since the 90s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Solar_Challenge

Some look close to like a real car, that one EV + solar, 25miles/KWh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNSW_Sunswift#/media/File:Suns...

I'd venture a guess - Aptera went for 3 wheeler because certification as a motorcycle is much easier than as a 4-wheel car. Unfortunately 3 wheels - 3 vertical columns resisting the upcoming air - may be less aerodynamic than 4 wheels which are only 2 vertical columns resisting the upcoming air. Add to that that for the same stability you generally need the paired wheels in a 3 wheeler wider than the paired wheels in a 4 wheeler - that again worsens the 3-wheeler aerodynamics.

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#23

Post by NewJazz »

trhway wrote: post #13

300-545 watts. Aptera gets 8 miles/KWh (to compare - my Prius and other EV cars get about 3+ miles/KWh). So they get 2.5-4.5 miles from an hour under the Sun. So 20-40 miles during the time of commute and while parked at work. So, yes, that Trump's idea he expressed in the interview to Musk back then to plaster cars with solar panels isn't totally meaningless, at least in theory - you can have 2-3x solar panels on re…

Where does the 8mi/kWh number come from?

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#24

Post by ccnjfkggkkcj »

skykooler wrote: post #18
russdill wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're traveling 300 miles, cargo capacity is pretty important. I feel like this is sacrificing a great deal of what people actually need for a "feature" that is a bit of a solution in search of a problem.

The trunk in the Aptera is actually pretty huge, it's like six feet deep. What's mainly sacrificed is passenger capacity since it's only a 2-seater.

It isn't just the amount of space but the weight of what you plan on hauling that will impact your battery range as well.

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#25

Post by jillesvangurp »

pinkmuffinere wrote: post #12

> Even on an overcast day, the team saw over 545 watts of solar input Let’s (generously) assume that was the minimum they saw, and let’s (generously) say they charged for 14 hours. That’s 7.63 kWh gained over the day, in almost ideal conditions. Flagstaff’s high altitude means stronger sunlight, and they can do regenerative braking as they come down the mountain. In my Nissan leaf, 6 kWh would get me about 20 miles.…

You are not wrong, you are just missing the point. This is the ultimate commuter vehicle. Most commutes fall in the 10-30 miles range. On an average day, you might drive 30-40 miles. If so, you basically are powered by the sun on most days.

> they maybe got 50 miles from the charging on that day

They claim it's up to 40.

Best case you charge more than you drive; so your car has a enough in the battery every morning to make it back home after work. Worst case, you delay the moment when you have to charge by plugging in by some large percentage. The difference between charging your car once or twice per week and once or twice every few months top top it up. Perfect if you don't have a charger at home. Removes a lot of the hassle and cost related to charging.

Road trips are not something people do on a daily basis. Especially not in light/small vehicles. But when you do, a light vehicle with a longish range is a nice thing to have. And this thing is very efficient by design (light, teardrop shaped) and the relatively small battery probably charges pretty quickly. And you get a few tens of miles extra because of the solar. So it can do a 300 mile journey despite having a smallish battery. Which is what they just demonstrated. 300 miles is pretty good. Most EVs don't do any better than that.

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#26

Post by trhway »

NewJazz wrote: post #23
trhway wrote: post #13

300-545 watts. Aptera gets 8 miles/KWh (to compare - my Prius and other EV cars get about 3+ miles/KWh). So they get 2.5-4.5 miles from an hour under the Sun. So 20-40 miles during the time of commute and while parked at work. So, yes, that Trump's idea he expressed in the interview to Musk back then to plaster cars with solar panels isn't totally meaningless, at least in theory - you can have 2-3x solar panels on re…

Where does the 8mi/kWh number come from?

https://youtu.be/Kvpn7cteW5U?t=126 straight form Aptera

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#28

Post by jore »

there was a German startup (Sono Sion) some years ago that had a very similar idea and had even prototypes [0], but they filed for insolvency 2-3 years ago. Now I think they pivoted to something more boring and practical - putting solar panels on vehicles. I hope aptera gets to production though

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sono_Motors_Sion

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#29

Post by nindalf »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #15
pinkmuffinere wrote: post #12

> Even on an overcast day, the team saw over 545 watts of solar input Let’s (generously) assume that was the minimum they saw, and let’s (generously) say they charged for 14 hours. That’s 7.63 kWh gained over the day, in almost ideal conditions. Flagstaff’s high altitude means stronger sunlight, and they can do regenerative braking as they come down the mountain. In my Nissan leaf, 6 kWh would get me about 20 miles.…

50 miles of free driving a day sounds incredible, but you're implying that's a bad thing? I'm confused.

With how cheap solar panels are getting, why not slap a few of them on the roof of every EV? Some days they get you 10 free miles, other days 20 or 30. If you’re a commuter, you’re basically driving for free at that point.

Sure it’s not enough on road trips, but why is that a problem?

Re: Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge

#30

Post by nindalf »

trhway wrote: post #13

300-545 watts. Aptera gets 8 miles/KWh (to compare - my Prius and other EV cars get about 3+ miles/KWh). So they get 2.5-4.5 miles from an hour under the Sun. So 20-40 miles during the time of commute and while parked at work. So, yes, that Trump's idea he expressed in the interview to Musk back then to plaster cars with solar panels isn't totally meaningless, at least in theory - you can have 2-3x solar panels on re…

The price of solar panels isn’t static though. It might not have made sense in 2015 or 2020 or even 2025. But solar panels continue to get cheaper, so it might eventually get to a point where it’s a serious idea. Even if it costs a couple thousand extra, the panels will pay for themselves by giving you basically free commutes forever.
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