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FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

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Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#31

Post by ceejayoz »

xrd wrote: post #26

I cannot find any summaries for the cost of these detection devices. What did this cost, anyone know?

Probably a lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651 made tens of millions of dollars at ~$5,000/unit.

> The laboratory found that the card contained only a standard radio frequency ID tag of the type used in stores to prevent shoplifting. According to the laboratory's Dr. Markus Kuhn, it was "impossible" for the card to detect anything and it had "absolutely nothing to do with the detection of TNT". The card could not be programmed, had no memory, no microprocessor and no form of information could be stored on it. Despite the high cost of the devices, the cards were worth only about two to three pence (3–5¢) each. Kuhn commented: "These are the cheapest bit of electronics that you can get that look vaguely electronic and are sufficiently flat to fit inside a card." The "card reader" was found to be an empty plastic box.

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#32

Post by soared »

potato3732842 wrote: post #15
AngryData wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't agree with this stance at all. US shootings and crimes will not be stopped or declined by stronger invasions of privacy and increased searches. US's high crime problems boil down to poor socioeconomic factors. Poverty, desperation, lack of economic mobility and opportunity, draconian law enforcement, poor social services and safety net. Over and over and over again throughout history, harsher law enforcement…

Don't forget the massive illegal drug industry that has to DIY the kind of business-dispute settling violence that normal industries use court ordered state violence for. That alone accounts of a huge amount of our violence.

Source, does gang/drug violence really account for a lot of our violence? This says only 16% of homicides are drug related.

https://www.niagararecovery.com/blog/drug-related-crime-stat...

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#34

Post by harpiaharpyja »

ceejayoz wrote: post #12
tremon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That last example is very weak, since the platitude explicitly mentions good guys with guns.

If there's not a single good guy in ~400 cops, that indicates a substantial related issue.

Indeed

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#35

Post by giantg2 »

I mean, the company has never really said how their systems worked. It's basically left the users/scanned with the impression that it's magic. It seems to me that it's basically some of 3D metal detection paired with cameras. It would be cool to understand how they make it work, but I guess it's a trade secret. They haven't readily put up numbers about false positive rates, and even less data about false negatives. I get the impression that this relies heavily on placebo effect - "they have scanners so I better not try to take my weapon in".

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#36

Post by unwise-exe »

I thought advertising and marketing materials were expected to exaggerate things to the point of blatant falsehood.

Is that changing, or is this company being singled out for some reason, or are they really that much worse than everyone else?

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#37

Post by mattw2121 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #18
yesco wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am happy to inform you that the United States also does not have school shootings on an "almost daily basis". Not trying to be pedantic here, but gross exaggerations misrepresent the issue.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/17/mass-s... > GVA has reported 971 cases of school shootings across the United States in 2024, with many of them having no victims or injuries. The database has tracked 112 school shootings in which a victim was injured or killed. Somewhere between ~3/day and ~0.3/day, depending what you count. Close enough.

USA Today's reporting is wrong. There are not 971 cases of school shootings. There are about that many "school incidents". Some of those incidents, like the one listed below, are where police responded to a report of someone with a gun and never found the person or gun.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3096236

Additionally, some of the 112 that did have a victim didn't even happen on campus. See this linked incident.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3091356

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#38

Post by ceejayoz »

f1shy wrote: post #25
razakel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadians have guns. Mexicans have guns. Australians have guns. They don't have school shootings on an almost daily basis. The problem is definitely not the guns. It doesn't help, but it's not the root cause.

Swiss also… everywhere. And the laws are not so different in the USA as the rest of the world as often portrayed. Also the violence all around the world is more uniform than many think or want to admit (if counted relative to people count) But a shooting in USA will be displayed everywhere while a shooting, say in Germany, will not be covered as much. Just in south germany (BW) there are a couple of people killed per…

> But a shooting in USA will be displayed everywhere...

No, it won't. Unless it's a very large or very notable one (school w/multiple deaths, lots of deaths, politician, etc.), it'll be a line item on the day's evening news for the local TV station. We have 10k+ a year, not "a couple per week". I don't even hear of most of the ~50/year that happen in my fairly small city.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_Sta...

> In 2017, compared to 22 other high-income nations, the U.S. gun-related homicide rate was 25 times higher. Although the US has half the population of the other 22 nations combined, among those 22 nations studied, the U.S. had 82 percent of gun deaths, 90 percent of all women killed with guns, 91 percent of children under 14 and 92 percent of young people between ages 15 and 24 killed with guns, with guns being the leading cause of death for children.

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#39

Post by razakel »

f1shy wrote: post #25
razakel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadians have guns. Mexicans have guns. Australians have guns. They don't have school shootings on an almost daily basis. The problem is definitely not the guns. It doesn't help, but it's not the root cause.

Swiss also… everywhere. And the laws are not so different in the USA as the rest of the world as often portrayed. Also the violence all around the world is more uniform than many think or want to admit (if counted relative to people count) But a shooting in USA will be displayed everywhere while a shooting, say in Germany, will not be covered as much. Just in south germany (BW) there are a couple of people killed per…

A school shooting in Germany would be headline news around the world.

Nobody really cares when it's criminals shooting other criminals.

The latest American one only made the news because a girl did it.

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#40

Post by gs17 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #31
xrd wrote: post #26

I cannot find any summaries for the cost of these detection devices. What did this cost, anyone know?

Probably a lot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651 made tens of millions of dollars at ~$5,000/unit. > The laboratory found that the card contained only a standard radio frequency ID tag of the type used in stores to prevent shoplifting. According to the laboratory's Dr. Markus Kuhn, it was "impossible" for the card to detect anything and it had "absolutely nothing to do with the detection of TNT". The card could…

> Promotional material issued by ATSC claimed that the ADE 651 could detect such item as guns, ammunition, drugs, truffles, human bodies, contraband ivory and bank notes at distances of up to 1 kilometre (0.62 mi), underground, through walls, underwater or even from aircraft at an altitude of up to 5 kilometres (3.1 mi).

Could they have at least tried to make their lies believable?

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