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Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

building.co.uk

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Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#31

Post by defrost »

chickenbig wrote: post #23
dingdingdang wrote: post #6

Very good to hear about upskilling taking place but also immensely sobering numbers (i.e. 1300 apprentices is seen a big uplift) for a country the size of the UK.

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-sta... 118,770 apprenticeships achieved in the UK last year. We're not that big on practical education, with a preference for getting degrees so we can sit behind a desk moving (electronic) paper.

With 800,000 people (male and female) aged 20 (mid 2021) in a total population of 69 million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Kin...

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#32

Post by ben_w »

Hikikomori wrote: post #9
snalty wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about time our national infrastructure benefitted from foreign taxpayer money, considering how often it's been the other way around! Especially with the railways.

Didn't you put yourself in that situation?

In UK elections, because it's not a 2-party system, the winner usually has less than half of the votes.

But even if they didn't, losers don't have to take it quietly.

But even if they did, governments are complex representatives, not ongoing referendums on each individual topic, so we can agree with 80% of the party we vote for and strongly disagree with the rest of their policies.

The cynical alternative is that democracy is a way to get everyone to shut up: if you voted for them it's your fault, if you voted against them you need to obey the will of the people (if you voted for a minor party you wasted your vote), if you're too young to vote then you're naïve to real issues, and if you didn't vote at all then you silenced yourself.

(Sometimes I'm the cynic).

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#33

Post by inglor_cz »

Hikikomori wrote: post #9
snalty wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about time our national infrastructure benefitted from foreign taxpayer money, considering how often it's been the other way around! Especially with the railways.

Didn't you put yourself in that situation?

FPTP systems suffer from a very high percentage of wasted votes. If voting systems were judged like normal IT systems, FPTP would be considered defective by design.

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#34

Post by OtherShrezzing »

griffzhowl wrote: post #28
defrost wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each phase will have an installed generation capacity of 1.2GW and represents a multi-billion pound investment. Combined, they will have an installed capacity of 3.6GW and will be capable of powering up to 6 million homes annually. ~ https://doggerbank.com/ Sounds about right in scale .. how many homes in the UK in total?

Thing is, "capacity" is the maximum generation in ideal conditions, so for wind the actual produced amount will be much lower than this.

The UK is a bit of a special case here. Although what you said is literally true, our wind energy has only 5% of the country's capacity, but provides nearly 30% of the consumed energy.

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#35

Post by ben_w »

defrost wrote: post #12
blitzar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dogger Bank Wind Farm

Each phase will have an installed generation capacity of 1.2GW and represents a multi-billion pound investment. Combined, they will have an installed capacity of 3.6GW and will be capable of powering up to 6 million homes annually. ~ https://doggerbank.com/ Sounds about right in scale .. how many homes in the UK in total?

> installed capacity of 3.6GW

I'm not aware what the capacity factor for wind is in the north sea, I think it's about 25% globally.

> how many homes in the UK in total?

About 25 million.

(But also: ongoing political issue is that this isn't enough and housing is too exaggerated vs. vested interests in housing being expensive).

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#36

Post by davedx »

griffzhowl wrote: post #26
roenxi wrote: post #3

> As the cost of Hinkley Point has increased, the backers have had to provide more funding. The souring of relations between Britain and China saw CGN stop providing any more money, leaving EDF to fund the shortfall. EDF has called upon the UK government to help out with the escalating cost but it has refused. EDF was fully nationalised in 2023, leaving the French taxpayer to pick up the tab for the cost overruns. Th…

OTOH if I understand it right the French "taxpayer", i.e. govt, will be the beneficiary of the above-market price for electricity produced by the plant that the UK has guaranteed, presumably for the lifespan of the plant, which is 60 years. So I presume that will be a net gain for France, otherwise there would be no sense in continuing with the project.

Weren’t those agreements made way back before the giant cost overuns?

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#37

Post by myrmidon »

blitzar wrote: post #5
dvh wrote: post #4

What would be equivalent solar/wind installed power?

Dogger Bank Wind Farm

Thats a very good comparison-- to be fair though, 3.2GW nuclear are comparable to pretty much the whole Dogger Bank (including Sofia/South) at ~8GW (nameplate power), because offshore capacity factor is about ~40% in the UK.

Total cost for the wind farm is probably around 20-ish billion $, but the lifetime is likely shorter than the reactor (possibly less than half!).

It's surprising to me that the reactor at $35billion is still competitive, cost-wise, with the offshore wind farm.

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#38

Post by davedx »

anovikov wrote: post #11

It will produce annually, about as much electricity as UK produces now from solar. Which is installed at a much faster clip than these two sad reactors are built, even if UK is one of the worst countries for solar in the civilised world due to expensive land and terrible weather. What's even the point? Maybe this reactor is a live testament to the observation that "any new nuclear starting construction today will be…

The pro nuclear types hate these observations because they’re painfully true. Battery storage is already doing a lot in the UK (4.6GW/5.9GWh) and the huge solar build out is a no brainer.

Nuclear power is a dead end technology

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#39

Post by pfdietz »

lupusreal wrote: post #30
anovikov wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is storage for that, which is now finally, available, inexpensive and safe. Plus, it's long since proven that with moderate losses, renewable electricity system that combines solar, wind, and hydro, does not need any storage at all, or very moderate amounts of storage to achieve no or almost no losses.

> There is storage for that There literally isn't, it doesn't exist.

In the same sense this reactor doesn't exist?

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#40

Post by defrost »

griffzhowl wrote: post #28
defrost wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each phase will have an installed generation capacity of 1.2GW and represents a multi-billion pound investment. Combined, they will have an installed capacity of 3.6GW and will be capable of powering up to 6 million homes annually. ~ https://doggerbank.com/ Sounds about right in scale .. how many homes in the UK in total?

Thing is, "capacity" is the maximum generation in ideal conditions, so for wind the actual produced amount will be much lower than this.

The Dogger Bank Wind site recognises this and bases the number of households serviced on proven reasonable wind conditions (apparently)

    6 million homes powered per annum based on Typical Domestic Consumption Values (Medium Electricity Profile Class 1, 2,900kWh per household; OFGEM, January 2021), typical 55% wind load factor, and projected installed capacity of 3.6GW.
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