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Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

building.co.uk

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Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#21

Post by chickenbig »

roenxi wrote: post #3

> As the cost of Hinkley Point has increased, the backers have had to provide more funding. The souring of relations between Britain and China saw CGN stop providing any more money, leaving EDF to fund the shortfall. EDF has called upon the UK government to help out with the escalating cost but it has refused. EDF was fully nationalised in 2023, leaving the French taxpayer to pick up the tab for the cost overruns. Th…

And this level of risk (and realised overrun) accounts for part of the higher CfD price at the start.

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#22

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

dingdingdang wrote: post #7
roenxi wrote: post #3

> As the cost of Hinkley Point has increased, the backers have had to provide more funding. The souring of relations between Britain and China saw CGN stop providing any more money, leaving EDF to fund the shortfall. EDF has called upon the UK government to help out with the escalating cost but it has refused. EDF was fully nationalised in 2023, leaving the French taxpayer to pick up the tab for the cost overruns. Th…

Absolutely. Thanks for the highlighting! Edit: It's a two-in-one good news afaiac: China withdrawing funding(/influence) and some sort of accountability applied to mega projects rather than just throwing (and eventually devaluing) more and more money at things.

I’m not sure what the win is here. I doubt the French tax payer is winning and the French government is trying for the UK to help with the bill.

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#23

Post by chickenbig »

dingdingdang wrote: post #6

Very good to hear about upskilling taking place but also immensely sobering numbers (i.e. 1300 apprentices is seen a big uplift) for a country the size of the UK.

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-sta...

118,770 apprenticeships achieved in the UK last year. We're not that big on practical education, with a preference for getting degrees so we can sit behind a desk moving (electronic) paper.

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#24

Post by matt-p »

lostlogin wrote: post #15
snalty wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about time our national infrastructure benefitted from foreign taxpayer money, considering how often it's been the other way around! Especially with the railways.

I don’t understand this comment - could you explain why? Do other countries benefit from UK railways?

Majority (particularly by ticket sales) of uk train operators (TOCs) are foreign owned[1] and operators are "TBTF" and subsidised by the government, in 2023 this was over 4 Billion pounds, meanwhile each TOC is paying out millions in dividends to share holders[2].

1 - https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-reveals-that-75-of-uk-rail-n... 2 - https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/rail-factsheet-2023...

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#25

Post by clarionbell »

anovikov wrote: post #14
Ekaros wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the energy is produced during night, winter and heavily overcast times...

There is storage for that, which is now finally, available, inexpensive and safe. Plus, it's long since proven that with moderate losses, renewable electricity system that combines solar, wind, and hydro, does not need any storage at all, or very moderate amounts of storage to achieve no or almost no losses.

And yet the energy prices are so high that they drive companies to cut production. Especially in countries which banked on renewables the most (along with gas).

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#26

Post by griffzhowl »

roenxi wrote: post #3

> As the cost of Hinkley Point has increased, the backers have had to provide more funding. The souring of relations between Britain and China saw CGN stop providing any more money, leaving EDF to fund the shortfall. EDF has called upon the UK government to help out with the escalating cost but it has refused. EDF was fully nationalised in 2023, leaving the French taxpayer to pick up the tab for the cost overruns. Th…

OTOH if I understand it right the French "taxpayer", i.e. govt, will be the beneficiary of the above-market price for electricity produced by the plant that the UK has guaranteed, presumably for the lifespan of the plant, which is 60 years. So I presume that will be a net gain for France, otherwise there would be no sense in continuing with the project.

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#27

Post by [deleted] »

lostlogin wrote: post #15
snalty wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about time our national infrastructure benefitted from foreign taxpayer money, considering how often it's been the other way around! Especially with the railways.

I don’t understand this comment - could you explain why? Do other countries benefit from UK railways?

[deleted]

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#28

Post by griffzhowl »

defrost wrote: post #12
blitzar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dogger Bank Wind Farm

Each phase will have an installed generation capacity of 1.2GW and represents a multi-billion pound investment. Combined, they will have an installed capacity of 3.6GW and will be capable of powering up to 6 million homes annually. ~ https://doggerbank.com/ Sounds about right in scale .. how many homes in the UK in total?

Thing is, "capacity" is the maximum generation in ideal conditions, so for wind the actual produced amount will be much lower than this.

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#29

Post by chickenbig »

defrost wrote: post #12
blitzar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dogger Bank Wind Farm

Each phase will have an installed generation capacity of 1.2GW and represents a multi-billion pound investment. Combined, they will have an installed capacity of 3.6GW and will be capable of powering up to 6 million homes annually. ~ https://doggerbank.com/ Sounds about right in scale .. how many homes in the UK in total?

The obligatory "what's the capacity factor" discussion should happen here; 40% to 50% might be reasonable, with highly correlated availability.

Additionally the wind farm requires backup (CCGT or OCGT), which cost money to sit there. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6556027d046ed... (take it with a pinch of salt) gives a figure of £80/kW/year for an H class CCGT; that's £250M/year (2015 prices).

Another talking point might be the lifetime of wind farms (20 or 25 years) versus 60 years design lifetime for the EPR. Note that there are lifetime extensions to 80 years being mooted in the US and Switzerland.

Re: Hinkley Point C: Building Britain's first nuclear reactor in 30 years

#30

Post by lupusreal »

anovikov wrote: post #14
Ekaros wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the energy is produced during night, winter and heavily overcast times...

There is storage for that, which is now finally, available, inexpensive and safe. Plus, it's long since proven that with moderate losses, renewable electricity system that combines solar, wind, and hydro, does not need any storage at all, or very moderate amounts of storage to achieve no or almost no losses.

> There is storage for that

There literally isn't, it doesn't exist.

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