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EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

digitalcourage.social

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Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#31

Post by sunaookami »

diggan wrote: post #10
2-3-7-43-1807 wrote: post #8

Okay, so all Western societies are bound to go surveillance state in near future, unchecked by judicial forces and social credit systems to top it off. It will happen and we can only postpone it. What is the response to that of the technologically competent segment of society? Will this give birth to a rogue cyberpunk culture of hackers and cowboys? Or are we facing an era resembling a black mirror episode with smile…

> and social credit systems to top it off. It will happen and we can only postpone it. What social credit systems are you talking about specifically? Maybe I live under a rock, but I haven't heard anything about something like that in EU or Europe.

SCHUFA for Germany. They want to get your bank payments next. If your score is bad (which can be if you live in a neighbourhood which is "bad") you can't get loans or other contracts like for mobile data.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#32

Post by smackay »

simion314 wrote: post #23
sharpshadow wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orban doesn’t need to crack down on political opposition he has a strong majority in his country.[1] I guess you have a wrong opinion about Hungary and Orban because the media doesn’t like him because he is a pain in the ass for many plans of the European Union and gets bad reporting. Hungary has by the way not even 10 million residents. 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungarians-vote-orbans-...

As far as I know Orban changed the electoral law, he uses the votes from Hungarians outside Hungary (weird to vote for shit that does not affect you), the people in cities are not voting for him so he gets the votes from uneducated people that do not know a foreign language and get indoctrinated by the Orban controlled media. He is also super corrupt and Putin fanboy so most online English support he gets are from Ru…

Wikipedia always delivers, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-resident_citizen_voting

"As of 2020 a total of 141 countries grant expatriates the right to vote in elections in their countries of origin."

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#33

Post by megous »

diggan wrote: post #10
2-3-7-43-1807 wrote: post #8

Okay, so all Western societies are bound to go surveillance state in near future, unchecked by judicial forces and social credit systems to top it off. It will happen and we can only postpone it. What is the response to that of the technologically competent segment of society? Will this give birth to a rogue cyberpunk culture of hackers and cowboys? Or are we facing an era resembling a black mirror episode with smile…

> and social credit systems to top it off. It will happen and we can only postpone it. What social credit systems are you talking about specifically? Maybe I live under a rock, but I haven't heard anything about something like that in EU or Europe.

Currently they are somewhat hidden. When GDPR came out in force, I tried removing my name, phone number and address from all kinds of public places, and I also found some local company that collects personal and behavioral information on people and provides it to other institutions to asses whether they want to do business with you or not. (banks, etc.)

They gave me the results of their algorithm for me personally, but refused to describe the algorithm. Results were kinda non-sense, but when I wanted them deleted, they told me that I may have trouble in the future with their clients, due to lack of information on me in their systems. Probably a scare tactic, but still annoying and concerning.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#34

Post by 2-3-7-43-1807 »

consumerx wrote: post #21
2-3-7-43-1807 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An example for a social credit system would be the German Schufa score.

exactly or deducing points when caught speeding ....

depends on how you define it. in my book a SCS requires that what impacts the score is disconnected from what is impacted by it. the Punkte are just impacting your driver's license. the Schufa score can lower your chances to get an apartment just because you had problems with a cellphone provider.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#35

Post by amarcheschi »

dt3ft wrote: post #28

[flagged]

The chat you are referring to aren't encrypted, I don't see how breaking end to end encryption would affect the chat you're talking about. That's a problem that has to do with telegram governance. In telegram, group chats are not encrypted. 1:1 chats are also not encrypted if you don't start a secret chat before

Now tell me, if law enforcement can just get into those group since they're not encrypted, why are not they doing that? What do they need to break encryption for?

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#37

Post by tigeroil »

dt3ft wrote: post #28

[flagged]

This is not a good argument as to why we should break encryption.

Rather, it's an argument that law enforcement should start engaging with those groups on telegram directly, i.e. setting up stings etc and just actually go and catch them. Do some good old police work.

If you're able to find them on telegram, clearly law enforcement are capable too, if they're resourced and willing. Encryption isn't the problem here.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#38

Post by minkles »

dt3ft wrote: post #28

[flagged]

Yeah normal here in the UK as well. I was at a party last year and someone just ordered coke off WhatsApp. This turned into a mess because they wanted to pay the "menu price" as advertised and two guys with a shooter turned up and took £500 off them instead of £200.

So we have extortion, illegal drug dealing and illegal guns in one fine evening.

ChatControl is not the solution however. Reporting it to the police didn't do a damn thing either though so I don't know!

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#39

Post by vetinari »

simion314 wrote: post #23
sharpshadow wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orban doesn’t need to crack down on political opposition he has a strong majority in his country.[1] I guess you have a wrong opinion about Hungary and Orban because the media doesn’t like him because he is a pain in the ass for many plans of the European Union and gets bad reporting. Hungary has by the way not even 10 million residents. 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungarians-vote-orbans-...

As far as I know Orban changed the electoral law, he uses the votes from Hungarians outside Hungary (weird to vote for shit that does not affect you), the people in cities are not voting for him so he gets the votes from uneducated people that do not know a foreign language and get indoctrinated by the Orban controlled media. He is also super corrupt and Putin fanboy so most online English support he gets are from Ru…

> he uses the votes from Hungarians outside Hungary

That is pretty standard for EU voting; as long as you are citizen, you can vote, usually by mail or by visiting your embassy.

Otherwise, I happen to agree with you -- why you should vote, if you don't feel the impact of your vote?

> the people in cities are not voting for him

That's the common occurrence, people in cities are easier to influence due to density; US also has the Rural-Urban divide.

> he gets the votes from uneducated people

Yes, this is what the (modern|progressive|educated|whatever) tell to themselves to fell on high horse in their bubble.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#40

Post by [deleted] »

2-3-7-43-1807 wrote: post #16
weikju wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the response to that of the technologically competent segment of society? Cynically and probably realistically? A lot of them are busy implementing them either enthusiastically or “just following orders”. > Will this give birth to a rogue cyberpunk culture of hackers and cowboys? Or are we facing an era resembling a black mirror episode with smiles and flowers on the bright side and secret prisons beneath?…

Almost everybody I met working in IT doesn't care about such political and societal developments and is happy as long as there is steady supply of exciting gadgets. > Likely both :( These scenarios are indeed not mutually exclusive. But in the cyberpunk fantasy the counter culture would be more visible and also accessible for outsiders. Like having your social credit score increased by some hackers hanging out in a C…

[deleted]
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