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All web browsers on iOS are just Safari with different design

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Re: All web browsers on iOS are just Safari with different design

#31

Post by al_borland »

SahAssar wrote: post #18
smcleod wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that’s correct. What I’m saying is I don’t think chrome based browsers should come to iOS (brave, chrome)

Why would you prevent others from choosing the browser they use?

Safari is the only thing stopping Google from having a monopoly on the browser market. Take that away and Google will single-handedly control the future direction of the internet.

While I may like the idea of browser engine choice on iOS, I think preventing Google from owning the web is more important.

Re: All web browsers on iOS are just Safari with different design

#32

Post by al_borland »

cloudking wrote: post #21
Devasta wrote: post #10

And most browsers on other platforms are just Chrome with different design.

I wouldn't be mad if all browsers were Chromium powered. Then I can stop doing so many browser CSS/JS hacks.

Be careful what you wish for. This is good until it isn’t.

With Google owning the market, there is really nothing to stop them from implementing “features” that are good for them, but bad for the intent as a whole.

Re: All web browsers on iOS are just Safari with different design

#33

Post by almostnormal »

SahAssar wrote: post #18
smcleod wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that’s correct. What I’m saying is I don’t think chrome based browsers should come to iOS (brave, chrome)

Why would you prevent others from choosing the browser they use?

Enforcing webkit prevents websites from going back to "best viewed with internet explorer" today just with IE replaced by "any broweser using chromium".

I don't use apple, but I do appreciate the suffering of limited choice their users endure for the effect of higher diversity. Thank you, iphone users.

Re: All web browsers on iOS are just Safari with different design

#34

Post by SahAssar »

al_borland wrote: post #31
SahAssar wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you prevent others from choosing the browser they use?

Safari is the only thing stopping Google from having a monopoly on the browser market. Take that away and Google will single-handedly control the future direction of the internet. While I may like the idea of browser engine choice on iOS, I think preventing Google from owning the web is more important.

While I hate the tech-giant control of the internet as much as anybody else I don't think that restricting user choice of their browser is at all the right way to fix it.

Why do you think that forcing people to use safari/webkit is a good solution?

Re: All web browsers on iOS are just Safari with different design

#35

Post by shepherdjerred »

anste wrote: post #5

Sad, but true. Unfortunately, Safari still has some ways to go in terms of feature support. https://ios404.com/ has a great list of stuff that's still missing.

Most people wouldn't miss the majority of those APIs.

Safari has a lot of quirks, but those are mostly felt more by developers rather than users.

Re: All web browsers on iOS are just Safari with different design

#36

Post by SahAssar »

almostnormal wrote: post #33
SahAssar wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you prevent others from choosing the browser they use?

Enforcing webkit prevents websites from going back to "best viewed with internet explorer" today just with IE replaced by "any broweser using chromium". I don't use apple, but I do appreciate the suffering of limited choice their users endure for the effect of higher diversity. Thank you, iphone users.

And you see that as a reason enough to prevent millions of users from choosing their browser?

Are you arguing that diversity of browser engines is important, but we need to stifle/suppress diversity to ensure diversity?

Re: All web browsers on iOS are just Safari with different design

#37

Post by al_borland »

SahAssar wrote: post #34
al_borland wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is the only thing stopping Google from having a monopoly on the browser market. Take that away and Google will single-handedly control the future direction of the internet. While I may like the idea of browser engine choice on iOS, I think preventing Google from owning the web is more important.

While I hate the tech-giant control of the internet as much as anybody else I don't think that restricting user choice of their browser is at all the right way to fix it. Why do you think that forcing people to use safari/webkit is a good solution?

It’s not a perfect solution, but I’m not sure what the alternative would be that wouldn’t lead to Google’s domination. It’s still technically the market doing this, as it’s an Apple rule. People who don’t like Apple’s ways of doing things are free to use Android. I guess I’d prefer that over some kind of government enforced control.

I’m also going to assume the percentage of users who know this situation exists, care, and have an actual impact to their user experience is exceptionally small.

999,999 times out of 1,000,000, when someone is downloading a different browser on their phone it isn’t for the engine, it’s to get something like tab and bookmark syncing.

Re: All web browsers on iOS are just Safari with different design

#38

Post by SahAssar »

al_borland wrote: post #37
SahAssar wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I hate the tech-giant control of the internet as much as anybody else I don't think that restricting user choice of their browser is at all the right way to fix it. Why do you think that forcing people to use safari/webkit is a good solution?

It’s not a perfect solution, but I’m not sure what the alternative would be that wouldn’t lead to Google’s domination. It’s still technically the market doing this, as it’s an Apple rule. People who don’t like Apple’s ways of doing things are free to use Android. I guess I’d prefer that over some kind of government enforced control. I’m also going to assume the percentage of users who know this situation exists, care…

> I guess I’d prefer that over some kind of government enforced control.

You know what the "government enforced control" is? Choice. Literally, the so called "government enforced control" is giving you the choice of doing the exact same thing you did before or, if you'd like, something different.

Telling people to "just use android then" will be fine when apple destructs the walls of its walled garden.

Re: All web browsers on iOS are just Safari with different design

#39

Post by smcleod »

gnicholas wrote: post #4
smcleod wrote: post #3

Oh what I’d give for a real Firefox browser on iOS. I see lots of value in preventing chrome based browser from running through as they already dominate and shape the web too much as it is.

But iOS is WebKit, not chromium. Am I misunderstanding your concern?

I’m not talking about WebKit, I’m saying it would be good for the internet if chrome didn’t come to iOS

Re: All web browsers on iOS are just Safari with different design

#40

Post by al_borland »

SahAssar wrote: post #38
al_borland wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a perfect solution, but I’m not sure what the alternative would be that wouldn’t lead to Google’s domination. It’s still technically the market doing this, as it’s an Apple rule. People who don’t like Apple’s ways of doing things are free to use Android. I guess I’d prefer that over some kind of government enforced control. I’m also going to assume the percentage of users who know this situation exists, care…

> I guess I’d prefer that over some kind of government enforced control. You know what the "government enforced control" is? Choice. Literally, the so called "government enforced control" is giving you the choice of doing the exact same thing you did before or, if you'd like, something different. Telling people to "just use android then" will be fine when apple destructs the walls of its walled garden.

I’m thinking further down the line. If Google ends up with 99% market share, and then the government has to come in to end the monopoly, what will that intervention look like? Some of this was seen a couple decades ago with Microsoft in Europe.

With no market share left, will other companies/organizations give up on maintaining their own browser engine? Microsoft has already given up, so has Opera. Will we even have the possibility of choice?

Why does Apple need to take down their walls for people to move to Android? Most people use Apple products because of the walled garden, not in spite of it. I really don’t think the walls are that high, not much higher than any other platform switch someone might do.

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