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Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

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Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#31

Post by kkielhofner »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #27
kkielhofner wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upvoted and completely agree. Bans of Flipper Zero are ridiculous but Flipper should have run this by a "lay person" (sales, PR, marketing, an intern). Stripping a wire, showing a schematic with a diode and resistor, winding wires, soldering iron, etc just further proves the point of the regulators. Meanwhile in the beginning of the video they show decoding the signal with the pocket-sized Flipper Zero with the push…

I follow you, but the use case they mentioned to propose the ban is stealing cars. I'd figure a car theft ring is sufficiently motivated to figure out how to solder.

A car theft ring sophisticated enough to solder is going to realize several things:

1) Flipper Zero = almost no effort and instant.

2) Cheap and plentiful USB SDR = slightly more effort, longer range, higher signal integrity, faster, works with anything that can do host USB.

3) Using a headphone jack and requiring some amount of electronics expertise for what is in the end going to be a very short range and cumbersome tool that requires a 3.5mm jack that isn't even present on many/most modern devices is practically a non-starter.

This is basically a sales and marketing video for car theft rings.

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#32

Post by grecy »

sandworm101 wrote: post #10

FYI, banning things in Canada is not easy when they are not also banned in the US. The economies are so intermingled that whenever this happens it follows a pattern: for a few years the people guarding the border will zealously enforce the rule. Then they will forget about it and go back to business as usual. There is just too much to inspect. The guards are too busy dealing with all the guns coming north to worry ab…

And yet, I’ve never seen a handgun or heard a single gunshot [+] after almost 15 years in Canada.

[+] except at the range, or while hunting when I or my buddies pulled the trigger.

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#33

Post by squigz »

grecy wrote: post #32
sandworm101 wrote: post #10

FYI, banning things in Canada is not easy when they are not also banned in the US. The economies are so intermingled that whenever this happens it follows a pattern: for a few years the people guarding the border will zealously enforce the rule. Then they will forget about it and go back to business as usual. There is just too much to inspect. The guards are too busy dealing with all the guns coming north to worry ab…

And yet, I’ve never seen a handgun or heard a single gunshot [+] after almost 15 years in Canada. [+] except at the range, or while hunting when I or my buddies pulled the trigger.

And yet... https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2024001/article...

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#34

Post by yifanl »

repelsteeltje wrote: post #19
defparam wrote: post #7

I too disagree with the Canada ban, however I think the regulators are more concerned with how easy this can be done with a flipper zero. The moment you took out a soldering iron to build an antenna filter you've increased the complexity to the point where the regulators are no longer concerned. Yes this is still very dumb imho.

Sure a soldering iron raises the bar. Sure Flipper Zero lowers it considerably. But Canada is fighting a lost cause to strengthen "security through obscurity".

To be clear, modern society as we define it functions largely through "security through obscurity", considering that anybody with a sledgehammer can break into your property.

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#35

Post by bgirard »

grecy wrote: post #32
sandworm101 wrote: post #10

FYI, banning things in Canada is not easy when they are not also banned in the US. The economies are so intermingled that whenever this happens it follows a pattern: for a few years the people guarding the border will zealously enforce the rule. Then they will forget about it and go back to business as usual. There is just too much to inspect. The guards are too busy dealing with all the guns coming north to worry ab…

And yet, I’ve never seen a handgun or heard a single gunshot [+] after almost 15 years in Canada. [+] except at the range, or while hunting when I or my buddies pulled the trigger.

I lived in California for 5 years and didn't see or hear a gunshot either outside of those exclusions. Same living in Canada for 20+ years. It's not a useful measure to be honest.

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#36

Post by kkielhofner »

iknowbettah wrote: post #30
defparam wrote: post #7

I too disagree with the Canada ban, however I think the regulators are more concerned with how easy this can be done with a flipper zero. The moment you took out a soldering iron to build an antenna filter you've increased the complexity to the point where the regulators are no longer concerned. Yes this is still very dumb imho.

attack complexity is weird and often flawed, e.g. you think attackers need advanced hardware, but then someone does it woth a MCDonalds Toy. Same for software stuff.

You can steal many Kia and Hyundai cars on the road with a USB cable[0] that doesn't even involve electronics. It just so happens the physical shape of the USB plug fits well over the ignition tumbler. As the article points out many cars will have a USB A cable in them already and at that point all you need is a rock to break a window (or just open an unlocked door).

Many jurisdictions have laws against carrying theft or burglary tools[1] and needless to say walking around with a USB cable is innocuous enough to be hard to apply these existing laws to. In many instances these are only used to apply an additional charge to suspects that have already been caught for theft or burglary.

[0] - https://www.thedrive.com/news/how-thieves-are-stealing-hyund...

[1] - http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Displ...

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#37

Post by Auracle »

bgirard wrote: post #35
grecy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, I’ve never seen a handgun or heard a single gunshot [+] after almost 15 years in Canada. [+] except at the range, or while hunting when I or my buddies pulled the trigger.

I lived in California for 5 years and didn't see or hear a gunshot either outside of those exclusions. Same living in Canada for 20+ years. It's not a useful measure to be honest.

I live in Minnesota and I hear gunshots regularly.

I’m in a rural area though, so it’s not, you know, people killing each other. It’s hunting/practicing/plinking.

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#38

Post by grecy »

bgirard wrote: post #35
grecy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, I’ve never seen a handgun or heard a single gunshot [+] after almost 15 years in Canada. [+] except at the range, or while hunting when I or my buddies pulled the trigger.

I lived in California for 5 years and didn't see or hear a gunshot either outside of those exclusions. Same living in Canada for 20+ years. It's not a useful measure to be honest.

Even I've heard gunshots on the suburbs of LA

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#39

Post by scohesc »

It just shows that when you put people who don't have subject matter experience in positions that require said subject matter experience, they do stupid things based on what other "experienced" people say, or what is politically expedient at the time for votes or otherwise.

François-Philippe Champagne is a lawyer, who was formerly the minister of foreign affairs, the minister of infrastructure and communities, and minister of international trade.

Why do you have someone who held positions in industries or areas not related to technology being put in a position to make these kinds of decisions?

The government should be at the very least:

- Cracking down on gang activity at sea ports where stolen vehicles are put into containers and sent off to be sold in foreign countries.

- Forcing vehicle manufacturers (at their cost) to recall their older vehicles and retrofit more modern keyfobs with new security (for model years within the last 10-15 years) with non-compliance resulting in being unable to sell their new vehicles in the country.

- Increasing the severity of punishment for anybody who has stolen a vehicle, with an even more harsh penalty if they're found to be stealing vehicles with technology designed with the capability to capture and replay these keyfob signals.

It's a weak government with no idea on what they're doing and the Flipper Zero ban was a misguided, uneducated decision that was done to gather more votes instead of actually dealing with the problem directly.

Put ministers with actual industry/tech experience into these positions. Canada is slowly failing under it's current government, and I'm confident any other mainstream running party won't just bring more of the same ineptitude.

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