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Rare eleventh-century astrolabe discovery shows Islamic–Jewish sci. exchange

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Re: Rare eleventh-century astrolabe discovery shows Islamic–Jewish sci. exchange

#31

Post by ars »

wslh wrote: post #7

Probably most people ignore the good relationship between Jews and Arabs because it is not taught or communicated, sadly, often. They participated in math, medicine, astronomy, and philosophy.

It's probably not taught in the US, but it's certainly taught in Israel, but they also include the periods after that when Arabs started massacring and prosecuting Jews.

It's not a single time period, a lot of stuff happened, and the relationship changed - and not because of Israel (history didn't start in 1948).

Re: Rare eleventh-century astrolabe discovery shows Islamic–Jewish sci. exchange

#32

Post by wslh »

ars wrote: post #31
wslh wrote: post #7

Probably most people ignore the good relationship between Jews and Arabs because it is not taught or communicated, sadly, often. They participated in math, medicine, astronomy, and philosophy.

It's probably not taught in the US, but it's certainly taught in Israel, but they also include the periods after that when Arabs started massacring and prosecuting Jews. It's not a single time period, a lot of stuff happened, and the relationship changed - and not because of Israel (history didn't start in 1948).

Israel is tiny and not influential in terms of global education. It is also studied in Jewish schools around the globe but also this is tiny comparing to the world itself.

Re: Rare eleventh-century astrolabe discovery shows Islamic–Jewish sci. exchange

#33

Post by g8oz »

hdlothia wrote: post #27
gadilif wrote: post #2

This is... not a surprise. Jews have lived in Islamic countries for centuries, and had very good relations with their Islamic neighbors. In fact, there are many Jews with Arab origins living in Israel today. Unfortunately, after WWII, most Arab countries forced the Jews living there to leave (mostly to Israel). There are minor Jewish communities in some Islamic states still, but in recent decades this is very rare (t…

During the rule of al-Mutawakkil, the tenth Abbasid Caliph, numerous restrictions reinforced the second-class citizen status of dhimmīs and forced their communities into ghettos.[15] For instance, they were required to distinguish themselves from their Muslim neighbors by their dress.[16] They were not permitted to build new churches or synagogues or repair old churches according to the Pact of Umar. Is this an accur…

And yet this hardly compares to what happened in Europe during the medieval period.

Re: Rare eleventh-century astrolabe discovery shows Islamic–Jewish sci. exchange

#34

Post by selimthegrim »

ars wrote: post #29
teejays wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

When Zionism started "peaceful coexistence" was long since gone. You are combining time periods over hundreds of years. Peaceful coexistence ended around 860 (and stated getting worse in 636 with the Siege of Jerusalem), while modern Zionism didn't start till 1840's - around 1,000 years later. Possibly prompted by the Arab massacres in 1834: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed People sometimes talk ab…

What happened in 636, who was expelled?

Re: Rare eleventh-century astrolabe discovery shows Islamic–Jewish sci. exchange

#35

Post by selimthegrim »

elevaet wrote: post #13
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first one's fine: no objections there. The second comment is just misleading in so many ways it's hard to pick one. Dividing the world into "Pagan countries" and "Christian countries" is both inaccurate (Jews weren't considered pagans) and overly-simplistic (state religions aren't a solid, fixed thing, especially over large areas before modern communication). While the Arab conquests were significant, not every M…

> (The Mongol Empire didn't manage to eliminate the practice of Islam in the areas under its control, despite ritual washing being punishable by summary execution, so it's plausible that Islam is just that persuasive.) When/where did the Mongol empire ever try to eliminate the practice if Islam? They definitely shed a lot of blood and destruction in the Muslim world, but afaik the point was never to eliminate Islam,…

You might wanna look into the history of this guy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Taymiyya

Re: Rare eleventh-century astrolabe discovery shows Islamic–Jewish sci. exchange

#36

Post by selimthegrim »

mutatio wrote: post #21
lots2learn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand the word colonizer. The Muslims conquered and lived among the people. They created a civilization which non-Muslim minorities were a part of. This is very different from European colonialism that extracted resources from the lands and people they conquered for the exclusive benefit of the Empire.

They were colonizers and practiced genocide. It's a great source of pride that Jews were banished from the Arab peninsula (or forcefully converted). Other branches of Islamic history such as the Ottomams were also colonisers. Don't forget Muhammad himself was a warlord.

If they were banished from the Arabian peninsula, what were they doing in Yemen in 1948?

Re: Rare eleventh-century astrolabe discovery shows Islamic–Jewish sci. exchange

#37

Post by hdlothia »

g8oz wrote: post #33
hdlothia wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the rule of al-Mutawakkil, the tenth Abbasid Caliph, numerous restrictions reinforced the second-class citizen status of dhimmīs and forced their communities into ghettos.[15] For instance, they were required to distinguish themselves from their Muslim neighbors by their dress.[16] They were not permitted to build new churches or synagogues or repair old churches according to the Pact of Umar. Is this an accur…

And yet this hardly compares to what happened in Europe during the medieval period.

It seems like neither the Christian world or the Islamic world have been safe havens for Jewish people.

Re: Rare eleventh-century astrolabe discovery shows Islamic–Jewish sci. exchange

#38

Post by g8oz »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #30
lots2learn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand the word colonizer. The Muslims conquered and lived among the people. They created a civilization which non-Muslim minorities were a part of. This is very different from European colonialism that extracted resources from the lands and people they conquered for the exclusive benefit of the Empire.

[flagged]

>>way, way, way before europeans started trading slaves.

You might want to look into the Roman slave trade.

Re: Rare eleventh-century astrolabe discovery shows Islamic–Jewish sci. exchange

#39

Post by g8oz »

ars wrote: post #29
teejays wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

When Zionism started "peaceful coexistence" was long since gone. You are combining time periods over hundreds of years. Peaceful coexistence ended around 860 (and stated getting worse in 636 with the Siege of Jerusalem), while modern Zionism didn't start till 1840's - around 1,000 years later. Possibly prompted by the Arab massacres in 1834: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed People sometimes talk ab…

Zionism was prompted by what happened in Europe not in the Middle East. Literally 5 minutes of Googling will help you out here.

Re: Rare eleventh-century astrolabe discovery shows Islamic–Jewish sci. exchange

#40

Post by SomeDaysBe »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #30
lots2learn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand the word colonizer. The Muslims conquered and lived among the people. They created a civilization which non-Muslim minorities were a part of. This is very different from European colonialism that extracted resources from the lands and people they conquered for the exclusive benefit of the Empire.

[flagged]

> Muslims in europe had white people (and black people too) as slaves, way, way, way before europeans started trading slaves

Rome? Greece? What are you even talking about?

> FWIW slavery is still ongoing, today, in some muslim countries

Also in the USA [1] and EU [2].

Spare us the "europeans are peaceful / muslims evil" angle please.

[1] https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/country-studie... [2] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-00130...

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