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Entrepreneurs in Prison

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Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#31

Post by sp332 »

Mz wrote: post #26
mdda wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that being an ex-con means that at some point his standard NDA must have been insufficient/unenforceable... Or he made a bad hire, or trusted the wrong people. Just sayin'.

I do not understand why you would assert that. Anyone can make a mistake, ex con or not. So I don't follow your logic in tying the two things together. Do you think people simply cannot change? Signed: Puzzled and curious. Thanks.

mdda just meant: If he was really so good, he wouldn't have been caught.

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#32

Post by Mz »

jeremyarussell wrote: post #29
Mz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand why you would assert that. Anyone can make a mistake, ex con or not. So I don't follow your logic in tying the two things together. Do you think people simply cannot change? Signed: Puzzled and curious. Thanks.

Seems to me that he's saying it's obvious he didn't do a good job at not getting caught considering he got caught. Nothing really about people not being able to change. I may be wrong though, but hopefully that clarifies.

Um, I don't see that in the original remark. Hopefully the op will clarify.

Thanks.

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#33

Post by Mz »

sp332 wrote: post #31
Mz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand why you would assert that. Anyone can make a mistake, ex con or not. So I don't follow your logic in tying the two things together. Do you think people simply cannot change? Signed: Puzzled and curious. Thanks.

mdda just meant: If he was really so good, he wouldn't have been caught.

The legal dept at bigco where I once worked indicated that emloyee fraud was most often reported by the ex girlfriend/boyfriend. The Great Wall of China was breached by bribery. Getting caught doesn't prove incompetence. And, again, I don't see that in the remark made.

Thanks.

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#34

Post by ahi »

olalonde wrote: post #25
mistercow wrote: post #6

But here in America we punish our prisoners, no matter the cost to society!

Which part is wrong, the punish part or the cost part? Is it controversial to punish criminals?

Yes. At one point in our history the criminal justice discussions were about how best to rehabilitate the offender rather than punishment. Punishment that neither makes the victim whole or rehabilitates the offender is just useless vengeance.

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#35

Post by jeremyarussell »

Mz wrote: post #33
sp332 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mdda just meant: If he was really so good, he wouldn't have been caught.

The legal dept at bigco where I once worked indicated that emloyee fraud was most often reported by the ex girlfriend/boyfriend. The Great Wall of China was breached by bribery. Getting caught doesn't prove incompetence. And, again, I don't see that in the remark made. Thanks.

Choosing cohorts that won't rat you out happens to be an important part of not getting caught. In the case of Ex's someone who won't hold a grudge or seek vengeance, bribery well pick someone who has morals, then make sure to pay them enough to make bribery a non-issue.

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#36

Post by d_jackson_kf »

jisaacstone wrote: post #12
chasing wrote: post #10

First, it's prison. So, y'know, punishment on some level. In addition to rehabilitation. So my gut reaction is that I'd rather see more educational programs going on. Especially since a lot of "entrepreneurship" is really just either scammy behavior or flat-out fantasy (my start-up's the next Facebook!). Especially when the education isn't in place. That said, I'm not entirely opposed to the idea. But, as a tax-payer…

I had a friend in prison some years ago. He said the worst thing wan there was nothing to do. Most people slept 12+ hours a day & when they got out they couldn't adjust. So yeah, I feel any productive activity is a damn good idea.

It's very true. By far the worse thing inside is the boredom. When you see it on TV/movies all you see is the drama. You don't see the endless hours of _absolutely.nothing.to.do_ It's mind numbing. So you try to sleep as much as possible to make the time pass

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#37

Post by d_jackson_kf »

m_for_monkey wrote: post #17
bmelton wrote: post #9

At the risk of sounding glib, I don't think that's how most drug dealers in prison began dealing drugs. I could be way off, but the scenario he posits, wherein all hits mates are buying weed and he arbitrages, is probably not how most drug dealers come into operation, and certainly not how I suspect the prison-time crowd got into it.

"How do you think they got in to it then? Trying not to sound snarky - I'm genuinely interested in what other route you see people taking into drug dealing." -, asked HN user djacksonkf in his dead comment. I think he is Duane Jackson, the author. He seems to be banned for some reason. Duane, you can create a new account in no time.

Thanks. I am indeed the author. Didn't realise I was banned!

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#38

Post by Mz »

jeremyarussell wrote: post #35
Mz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal dept at bigco where I once worked indicated that emloyee fraud was most often reported by the ex girlfriend/boyfriend. The Great Wall of China was breached by bribery. Getting caught doesn't prove incompetence. And, again, I don't see that in the remark made. Thanks.

Choosing cohorts that won't rat you out happens to be an important part of not getting caught. In the case of Ex's someone who won't hold a grudge or seek vengeance, bribery well pick someone who has morals, then make sure to pay them enough to make bribery a non-issue.

IIRC, The Great Wall was only breached once over hundreds of years.

Competence != total invulnerability. I can't fathom why anyone would argue it should.

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#39

Post by drhayes9 »

jeremyarussell wrote: post #23

I wrote this in the comments on the article, but also wanted to share my thoughts with everyone here, please reply if you have something to say about what I'm about to say, this is one of the topics in life that I haven't finished making conclusions on, it is terribly complicated and I'd love feedback on my mental process. Thanks. When someone goes to prison it's generally for a good reason, after the jury and trial…

I don't think I'm disagreeing with the gist of your comment, but a couple of the ideas you put forward as givens freaked me out.

We have to leave aside two unanswered statements in your comment: how many people in prison actually deserve to be there, and how many of their rights prisoners surrender by being convicted of a crime. I'd argue that one's human rights don't ever get revoked, but that's just me.

What is the purpose of prison? I'd argue that it's a dual purpose: punishment and rehabilitation.

Being away from everyone you've ever loved or known is a terrible punishment. Once you walk out of a prison years after you went in the world will have changed out from under you. Your babies are grown and won't know you. Your parents might have died. Your friends' lives have moved on without you. The rhythms of daily life are now foreign to you. The particulars of any specific penitentiary system might make this easier (visitation, parole, etc.), but this is pretty horrible.

Why does someone commit a crime? Unless they are mentally unbalanced (which, in the US, is served by separate processes... e.g. pleading insanity), they have behaviors that are unacceptable outside of a set of social norms. Giving someone the opportunity to learn what society expects of them should be part of being in prison. Isn't education a great way to figure that out? Why should we be against someone trying to turn their life around after making some terrible choice? (Again, leaving aside questions of over-eager judicial systems e.g. the US' war on drugs)

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#40

Post by wtvanhest »

I would love for there to be a way to help prisoners not commit future crimes but this seems like a huge stretch.

First, most prisoners are not drug kingpins, they are people that do drugs to the point of not being able to control their lives, or people who commit violent crimes for nonsensical reasons or people who steal large or small sums of money. Many are people you would literally be scared to see in public.

Second, entrepreneurial prisoners like drug dealers are dealing drugs because they do not view risk the same way normal people do. They are in prison because they decided to take an illegal path toward making money knowing that it was easier than working.

Third, VCs will have a tough time explaining to their LPs about how they finance criminals. Even worse would be a VC’s risk if they finance one and the business fails and they have to explain it to their LP.

Forth, a really tough thing about starting a business is getting various people in the industry to work with you. Being a past prisoner is likely to be a burden in those relationships.

Fifth, them getting state/national licenses that may be required to start various businesses will be very challenging.

There are exceptions, like there are with every rule, but this is a tough sell. I could see a very small number of people being helped this way, but I genuinely feel like it would be tough. There are so many great people working toward businesses with no criminal background, it seems strange to try to put the effort in to people that have made no effort for themselves.

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