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Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org

31–40 of 82 posts

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#31
post #18

To put this in context, fossil fuel subsidies, just from 2015 - 2022: $42 trillion Global Fossil Fuel Subsidies Reached $7 Trillion in 2022: https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuel-subsidies-2022

This number appears to include the implicit subsidies too. The explicit subsidies seem to average at about 1/5th of the implicit ones. Implicit subsidies appear to be stuff like not putting a charge on the cost for external impacts, i.e. impact to health. The implicit subsidies to electric car companies could similar or even greater, as it appears that most of the microplastics come from car tires, as discussed recen…

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Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#32
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Electric cars are still something beneficial to the sustainability of the car industry and the environment. Hard disagree, they're a sidestep at best (batteries aren't made of magic green recycled pixie dust, the electricity to charge them doesn't come of 100% renewables, usually, tire dust still contributes massively to plastic pollution), detrimental at worst, especially when sold as an extremely shitty and ineff…

Walter Issacson (the author who originally broke the news on this story) later clarified that he was mistaken on the timeline. Calling someone a fascist is a pretty wild accusation, especially when it seems it was motivated by a misunderstanding. "Hi, Tim. Based on my conversations with Musk, I mistakenly thought the policy to not allow Starlink to be used for an attack on Crimea had been first decided on the night o…

So he actively sabotaged an Ukrainian attack against the Russian navy, just as I initially stated? His excuse is bullshit too

> If I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be explicitly complicit in a major act of war and conflict escalation

Refusing to help the defender is siding with the offender by allowing them to continue their senseless war of agression and genocide.

> Calling someone a fascist is a pretty wild accusation, especially when it seems it was motivated by a misunderstanding.

And he isn't flirting with fascism just because he helps Russia or mocks Zelensky having to beg for help from other countries to ensure the survival of his own, but for a whole host of other reasons. Just take a scroll through his Twitter timeline and see him getting scolded by the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs on migrants' lives, or him commenting, liking, retweeting memes full of racist or otherwise fascist-adjacent dogwhistles.

PS: https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/1/23895069/walter-isaacson-... I'm even less inclined to agree with Isaacson's statements now

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#34
post #33

It is good to award subsidies to manufacturers when what they create is aligned with our country’s environmental or industrial policy goals.

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/EE...

I don't think Tesla has our country's policy goals in mind.

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#35

This is the more interesting page of that website imo. https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/megadeals Shows the companies that receive subsidies and how much. I will note that Tesla isn't close to being the largest recipient of subsidies but recieves by far the most outrage.

This may be due to most of the company CEO's receiving these subsidies don't make a regular point of speaking out against government subsidies. It's not necessarily the subsidy that attracts criticism, it's the hypocrisy.

Really it's because most CEOS don't make a point of speaking out at all.

If Musk was a standard CEO with a PR team handling all messaging, the country would still love him.

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#36
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walter Issacson (the author who originally broke the news on this story) later clarified that he was mistaken on the timeline. Calling someone a fascist is a pretty wild accusation, especially when it seems it was motivated by a misunderstanding. "Hi, Tim. Based on my conversations with Musk, I mistakenly thought the policy to not allow Starlink to be used for an attack on Crimea had been first decided on the night o…

So he actively sabotaged an Ukrainian attack against the Russian navy, just as I initially stated? His excuse is bullshit too > If I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be explicitly complicit in a major act of war and conflict escalation Refusing to help the defender is siding with the offender by allowing them to continue their senseless war of agression and genocide. > Calling someone a fascist is a pre…

I don't understand how people can exist in such a clear dissonance state (Elon provides Starklink to Ukraine as a means to help Russsia, and does not offer it to Russia), and not step back and think.

Like its so clear that your constructed narrative is wrong, but you are so blinded by emotion that you are totally unable to see it. Even worse, you won't even be able to read this comment without assigning it as musk propaganda written by some drooling fan boy.

Seriously, the anti-musk people managed to become just as detached as the musk worshippers. If you want to be critical, get a grip, otherwise its easy for musk to hold up his detractors as idiots.

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#37
post #33

It is good to award subsidies to manufacturers when what they create is aligned with our country’s environmental or industrial policy goals.

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/EE... I don't think Tesla has our country's policy goals in mind.

The allegations here are very serious, but it can be simultaneously true that a company is doing important work, and that they need to fix deep problems in their workplace culture.

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#38
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So he actively sabotaged an Ukrainian attack against the Russian navy, just as I initially stated? His excuse is bullshit too > If I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be explicitly complicit in a major act of war and conflict escalation Refusing to help the defender is siding with the offender by allowing them to continue their senseless war of agression and genocide. > Calling someone a fascist is a pre…

I don't understand how people can exist in such a clear dissonance state (Elon provides Starklink to Ukraine as a means to help Russsia, and does not offer it to Russia), and not step back and think. Like its so clear that your constructed narrative is wrong, but you are so blinded by emotion that you are totally unable to see it. Even worse, you won't even be able to read this comment without assigning it as musk pr…

Why are you decided on making things binary? Either you're anti-musk or musk worshipper, or either musk is full on helping Ukraine or full on helping Russia. Things can, and often are far more nuanced. Like for instance, one can easily say that the Soviet Union was crucial in the war against Germany in WW2, while also being brutal genociding maniacs that committed human rights atrocities everywhere they went.

> I don't understand how people can exist in such a clear dissonance state (Elon provides Starklink to Ukraine as a means to help Russsia, and does not offer it to Russia), and not step back and think.

What musk did with Starlink regarding the Ukrainian planned attack was direct and active sabotage of an operation, and impeded the Ukrainian war effort. Other things he has done previously, like allowing Starlink access in Ukraine, has helped the war effort. Is that hard to comprehend? Does it have to be one or the other?

The fact that he has done some good deeds, for whatever reason, doesn't change the fact that he has done far more bad deeds. His sabotage of public transit initiatives with actively harmful efforts such as the loop and hyperloop has a direct impact. His constant lies and embellishments of technological advancements is also harmful to his customers. His sharing and endorsing fascist and Russian propaganda is also harmful to the Ukrainian war effot.

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow Boeing getting billions is not sexy enough to discuss on the internet, unless we can fit in “Musk” in the headline in some way.

I don't think it's the case that discussing X means people are afraid to discuss Y. No cover up, bias, or suspicion needed to explain why that's not mentioned explicitly every time other companies are subsidized. :)

I didn’t say anything about people being afraid to discuss anything. But a search on this site for discussion on subsidies to other companies than Tesla would probably get much less results.

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#40

What’s the point of the page if the information is incomplete ? For example the number about the 466 million federal loan I believe does not include the fact that it was paid back with interest (so taxpayers made money on that).

How is the information incomplete? The 466 million loan is not counted as a subsidy. And they say right there on the page that there may have been repayments.

Well, if the page included the easy-to-find fact that the loan was repaid with interest, it would be more complete.
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