Antidepressants Work Better Than Sugar Pills Only 15 Percent of the Time (2022) • Hacker News Board

Re: Antidepressants Work Better Than Sugar Pills Only 15 Percent of the Time (2022)

#31

Post by NoZebra120vClip » Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 9:04 PM UTC

mrguyorama wrote: post #28

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #3

My First SSRI at 19. I'd been referred to a psychologist and so I started attending appointments in his office, at the Children's Hospital with the playsets in the waiting room. He was a kind man, and our sessions were trustful and frank. He spoke to me with candor and not unlike Mr. Rogers on my TV, only he was there for me alone. Shortly he handed me off to his accomplice who pushed drugs. I got fluoxetine HCl. Tha…

>I got fluoxetine HCl. That's mostly fluoride in case you're not a chemist. That's a staggering lack of understanding of how basic chemistry works. Hydrogen is 66% of water and yet water is not flammable.

Dude I never once burst into flames whilst taking Prozac!* But I didn't have any cavities, either! We saved tons on the dentist bills.

*Well maybe just the once, but the jury determined that it was definitely not Prozac-Related Human Combustion (PRHC)

Re: Antidepressants Work Better Than Sugar Pills Only 15 Percent of the Time (2022)

#32

Post by jokoon » Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 9:50 PM UTC

jgerrish wrote: post #4

There have been several posts on Hacker News about this the past few days. I know myself. I'm a hacker, right? I can reprogram my body to accomplish anything. But sometimes people do need help, and that's not bad. I love this site, and the people on it. I hope these recent posts don't create a culture that rejects all depression management methods. It's a very fine line. The previous post mentioned that the "placebo…

I'm in the same case.

To me, people who are not doctors or neuro scientists who criticize ssri are like antivax people.

I'm tired of people linking to exploratory studies on psychedelics and then saying they're better than SSRI. Same anecdotal people who claims psychedelics cured them of depression while they were not diagnosed, and there is no proof it cured them.

Psychedelics are not FDA approved treatments you can use without supervision.

I'm suspecting there is a lobby of people targeting gullible patients who have mental health problem and sell them whatever. It's an insult to me.

Re: Antidepressants Work Better Than Sugar Pills Only 15 Percent of the Time (2022)

#33

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 10:44 PM UTC

jokoon wrote: post #32

jgerrish wrote: post #4

There have been several posts on Hacker News about this the past few days. I know myself. I'm a hacker, right? I can reprogram my body to accomplish anything. But sometimes people do need help, and that's not bad. I love this site, and the people on it. I hope these recent posts don't create a culture that rejects all depression management methods. It's a very fine line. The previous post mentioned that the "placebo…

I'm in the same case. To me, people who are not doctors or neuro scientists who criticize ssri are like antivax people. I'm tired of people linking to exploratory studies on psychedelics and then saying they're better than SSRI. Same anecdotal people who claims psychedelics cured them of depression while they were not diagnosed, and there is no proof it cured them. Psychedelics are not FDA approved treatments you can…

[deleted]

Re: Antidepressants Work Better Than Sugar Pills Only 15 Percent of the Time (2022)

#34

Post by hoagsobject » Fri, Sep 29, 2023, 9:14 AM UTC

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #23

hoagsobject wrote: post #14

Article claims that SSRI are overpresribed, and that only 15% derive any benefit. To me it seems that people who don't need it and were over-prescribed the drug do not derive any benefit. But it does not mean that drug efficiency is 15%. It's like giving aspirin to people without headache, and claim that aspirin does not work.

No statistics are actually cited for the "mounting evidence" but the 15% is cited to a "single study" -- so is 85% overprescribed by definition, if they're not helping? FYI, psychiatrists don't (can't) really check to see whether the drugs are "helping". As long as you're staying out of the hospital, not going fucking nuts in their face, and you're not screaming about ten side effects, they'll keep you on all the ine…

> No statistics are actually cited for the "mounting evidence" but the 15% is cited to a "single study" -- so is 85% overprescribed by definition, if they're not helping?

I don't know, but could be. Anecdotally all my friends were taking anti-depressants at some points for their life, including me. But not because they struggled with sever depression, but because of "stress" in life. I used to fallback to antidepressants when I had struggles at work, relationships, etc. Just go to a doctor and say you feel sad and not motivated, and you have a prescription.

I don't do it anymore. I think depression exists, but what I have had wasn't depression, and I could have resolved it without drugs with tons of side effects.

Re: Antidepressants Work Better Than Sugar Pills Only 15 Percent of the Time (2022)

#35

Post by NoZebra120vClip » Fri, Sep 29, 2023, 12:10 PM UTC

hoagsobject wrote: post #34

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No statistics are actually cited for the "mounting evidence" but the 15% is cited to a "single study" -- so is 85% overprescribed by definition, if they're not helping? FYI, psychiatrists don't (can't) really check to see whether the drugs are "helping". As long as you're staying out of the hospital, not going fucking nuts in their face, and you're not screaming about ten side effects, they'll keep you on all the ine…

> No statistics are actually cited for the "mounting evidence" but the 15% is cited to a "single study" -- so is 85% overprescribed by definition, if they're not helping? I don't know, but could be. Anecdotally all my friends were taking anti-depressants at some points for their life, including me. But not because they struggled with sever depression, but because of "stress" in life. I used to fallback to antidepress…

Right, fully understandable. My own situation? I recently decided to compare it to a stubbed toe that's been bothering me these 30 years.

30 years ago I discovered that I had stubbed my toe long ago. It really smarted and bugged me! I could barely walk so I started seeking care for it! Of course I was an extremely sick boy, with lots of latent ailments undiagnosed, but all anyone ever wanted to look at was that darned toe. How many times am I taking off my sock for some woman stranger?

I've incurred charges amounting to ~1/3 of a million dollars (that's a conservative and honest estimate, including 4 hospitalizations) on that "stubbed toe" issue. Not to minimize bipolar disorder, but it's defined as a "mood problem" so if you have mood swings or are moody then you have a mood problem. Mood is a mere symptom; an affect. On the scale and scope of issues bothering me, it is truly trivial and minor. Since 2008, I literally don't have mood swings. I sometimes get agitated and testy; I take strange irrational actions, but it is a normal sort of mood that would be considered natural in any undiagnosed person. Furthermore, I was formally diagnosed "IN REMISSION", via second opinion, about 3 years ago.

So the doctor denies my remission now, and insists that I still have a stubbed toe and insists that I must take drugs to avoid the hospital and dire consequences. Why, how, is stubbed-toe medication going to do that? Don't I need something stronger? You consistently detect serum levels as sub-therapeutic but you don't even bother to ramp up my dosages. Like, surgery or intensive PT or something??! Scheduled drugs, at least? It was literally only 5 years ago when I discovered how profoundly ill and messed-up I was. The doc says I literally have brain damage, and it's true. That stubbed toe really snowballed over 45+ years.

Of course I've sought manifold treatments and I've had mixed success, and I really believe that there is healing and recovery for these people who "stubbed their toe" and ran into so, so many problems afterwards. But today, 30 years on, I have bigger fish to fry; sorry doc but I'm off all of my meds.