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The Ones We Sent Away

theatlantic.com

31–40 of 76 posts

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you experienced any of the current driverless taxi services? Personally i see the current limits to rollout as ones of hardware cost, but this is steadily declining.

There are only 3 cities in the entire US with generally available driverless taxis. All three of which are in sunny areas with generally no real inclement weather. At this point, driverless taxis are more science fiction than reality for a supermajority of Americans, let alone the rest of the world. Meanwhile up in Canada, I'm still struggling with the fact that google has completely mislabeled two of the streets tha…

from people who work in those companies:

those cars could be in every city and they’d run great (except snow. snow is tough, rain not so much)

but why aren’t driverless cars there?

It’s been decided you want a perfect track record, as close to flawless - to appease regulation bodies.

regulation is what kills and regulation is the biggest fear. The cars and tech are always getting better, the ‘slowness’ is deliberate, the bet is on the future.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#32
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation…

To go off on tangent, if slime mold theory were true it would be possible to cure obesity by just switching to healthy, non-processed foods. i tried this in my own weight loss journey, and way easier said than done. CICO means you can get fat with anything. Thank god for new weight loss drugs . It took a century to get to this point and a century to develop these drugs...go figure.

slime mold made most of his fat theory up and got shot down doing poor analysis. He’s a well meaning charlatan but a charlatan nonetheless.

skip his diet ideas. He’d tell you your baseball team lost because the humidity was too high when in actuality half the team is out sick with the flu. He ignores basic obvious reasons. Always a zebra when he thinks it’s never a horse…

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#34
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "what if the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with calories in vs calories out, and actually there is some toxin which the body has to sequester in subcutaneous fat and that's why everyone's getting obese" Everyone loses weight on a caloric deficit. And "doubly labeled water" experiments show that people vastly underestimate how many calories they actually eat each day. See this often cited paper: https://www.nej…

For some real life examples see the "Secret Eaters" TV series. When people claim that they gain weight despite not eating much they are lying or delusional. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Eaters?wprov=sfla1 I do understand that it can be challenging for many people to reduce their energy intake.

I've seen the show. There's so much denial. Even here at Hacker News, suggesting that fat people eat too much food gets you downvoted and flagged.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "what if the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with calories in vs calories out, and actually there is some toxin which the body has to sequester in subcutaneous fat and that's why everyone's getting obese" Everyone loses weight on a caloric deficit. And "doubly labeled water" experiments show that people vastly underestimate how many calories they actually eat each day. See this often cited paper: https://www.nej…

I think this means that obese people have something wrong where they are prevented from accurately gauging portion sizes. I’m not talking like they’re stupid. I’m talking like something is wrong with their bodies and the inner satiety mechanism is broken. Counting calories sounds insane to me as a thin person. I’m not counting the calories of a fucking croissant I had for breakfast today, I just know I really preferr…

When asked to objectively measure their food and keep a log, fat people will lie about it, as revealed in "doubly labeled water" studies. Read the study I linked.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#37
post #9

My dad had an Uncle Charles (probably born around 1910) who didn't live with the family. He was what was called a "spastic" -- probably cerebral palsy. The family (out in the bush) couldn't look after him so he was committed to an institution. My dad visited him as a kid. Uncle Charles had never been taught to read or write but he was an excellent chess player and (like his brother, my grandfather) could do complex a…

I know a guy with CP, who is quite rich. The thing about CP, is that it usually only affects the body (sometimes, with deadly results), but the mind is often quite sharp. This guy was (and still is) a serial entrepreneur. Really sharp. I would not be surprised to find out that he has used his visible handicap to lull people into thinking he was easy meat.

Eric S. Raymond has mild cerebral palsy. Both he and his doctor hypothesize that in CP, like autism, the same neural miswiring that gives rise to the condition can, in some cases, also bestow greater insight or intelligence.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this means that obese people have something wrong where they are prevented from accurately gauging portion sizes. I’m not talking like they’re stupid. I’m talking like something is wrong with their bodies and the inner satiety mechanism is broken. Counting calories sounds insane to me as a thin person. I’m not counting the calories of a fucking croissant I had for breakfast today, I just know I really preferr…

When asked to objectively measure their food and keep a log, fat people will lie about it, as revealed in "doubly labeled water" studies. Read the study I linked.

Yes, something is sick with fat people that’s causing them to do that. Anorexic people exaggerate how fat they are and how much (how little) they eat, and that’s clearly some kind of illness that needs medical intervention and medication as needed to get them proper. Same for fat people, I think fat people have something wrong with them where the whole process of eat food -> feel sated is off. If everything I ate felt like half the portion is actually was I’d also be totally fucked up in how I understood my portion sizes too and would probably inadvertently lie on “objective” measures too!

Like I don’t know how much a portion of chicken is. But damn if I ate a chicken leg, and I feel like I ate nothing, I’d be sorely tempted to argue I didn’t have a full portion of protein… because it doesn’t feel like I did, in my body. I think that’s what’s happening to fat people. Otherwise drugs like ozempic wouldn’t be working like they do— the fat person doesn’t become suddenly honest on some dumb journal and suddenly the pounds come off! They just actually feel full when they should like normal people for once so their bodies are getting to normal people sizes.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#39
post #8

What a story. I got to the end a complete, sobbing wreck. To send your own children away to abominable, putrid institutions at the advice of doctors is something I can't even imagine. And it really wasn't that long ago.

Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation…

Nah, I do get thy people want to shift blame away from their failings to control food intake and mental weaknesses thats literally in front of them - I see it often in peers struggling and failing with some aspect of life, but obesity is fully self-inflicted.

As somebody currently used to mediterranean/french cuisine, and seeing what typical american eats and drinks, and how much, its definitely this. Plus idiotic car-first culture, compare it to how say Amsterdam looks like. And compare how local people on streets look like.

HFCS, hectoliters of sugary drinks, pizzas and other fast food in quantities beyond ridiculous. Obviously bad diet messes up your gut biome, which adds to bad stuff happening but is not the primary source. More stressful lives don't help but same applies.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#40

I worked in a facility like this for the first 5 years of my career Many of the clients are very aware they’ve been abandoned. Especially so because there are a select few who do get regular family visits. It was crushingly depressing to work holidays and have the regular crew of kids that never went home or had visitors. If you work with adults it was significantly worse, many of them had no visitors for literal dec…

Can you tell me what these facilities are called? I volunteer on all holidays and I’d be glad to keep folks company or help out the staff.

While that is noble and appreciated unfortunately many facilities will turn you away because of the liability involved.

The unfortunate reality of working with populations that include severe developmental and intellectual disability, traumatic brain injury, dementia, mood disorder, etc is that impulse control can be severely impaired. This can lead to extreme and sudden violence that can catch you quite off guard if you are not prepared for it (and even if you are) and cause significant injury. The staff turnover rate and workers comp claims were crazy high as a result and part of the cause of the low pay (although there were many other major factors involved). It can be quite dangerous. Although to be clear this is absolutely not to suggest that someone who is mentally ill or disabled is inherently dangerous of course; this is a small subset of individuals whose functioning was impaired in such a way that made the likelihood of violent behavior significantly more likely. Often it was not intentional violence, more like a childish tantrum except with the body of an adolescent or young adult that could do serious damage. Although occasionally it was serious targeted violence too. I personally still have a permanent neck and spinal injury a decade later as well as a ton of scars from bite marks. I saw much worse. It’s not just some mild annoyance shit, it’s life changing ruin your body kind of injuries.

With that serious caveat the other issue is that there’s not really a “standard” name for these programs. They vary by level of care, by provider, by state, and sometimes even by county. But some examples from around me would be residential schools, residential treatment facilities, long term structured residences, etc. more generic terms are things like “group homes” and they’re all considered an extension of psychiatric inpatient treatment facilities.

Also fwiw depending on your state/locale there may be volunteer opportunities that offer training to help alleviate the above issues. At another program I consulted with later in my career they had volunteers who would socialize in this capacity. It was a really nice program; they would essentially go through a condensed version of the staff training. They wouldn’t do anything like restraints or things like that but they would teach them evasive maneuvers, de escalation techniques, and then train them on the clients a bit with staff before letting them do more independent socialization. Was really nice for the clients. The downside was the really difficult clients who had extreme behavioral issues tended to not get the service and they also tended to be the clients who got visited the least. But that’s the difficulty of the issue; when your behavior gets to that point you kind of need specially trained people around you at all times for safety.

And the thing is populations change the frequency of this a bit but not as much as you’d think. I’ve spent most of my career doing pediatric stuff, child and adolescent, with some stints doing adult work. All of those populations can have these issues obviously but it does tend to calm a bit with age in my experience. However, I have peers who focus in gerontology and dementia and have similar issues because of the impulse control issues that can come with that diagnosis.

I hope this doesn’t scare you off. I only hope to prepare you for the realities of the situation. I would hate to just post “oh yeah go volunteer” and have some kid bite you and have it get infected (human bites get infected super easily if they break skin, mouths are nasty!) or have your hair pulled and get your neck all messed up. You can do this and be safe if you are prepared and trained, you don’t need to be hypervigilant (that can actually make things worse), but you do need to be aware of your surroundings and know how to position yourself safely. That all said my suggestion would be to find a residential facility near you and contact them directly to see if they have any volunteer opportunities. If they just invite you they most likely have a population where none of this is a concern and you are good to go. If they offer training and you’re up to it go for it, you’ll learn a lot about safe positioning and de escalation techniques. If they ignore you I’m sorry, a lot of these places are overwhelmed and constantly short staffed unfortunately

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