lets see how long Apple keeps the store open.....
Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff
31–40 of 93 posts
Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff
#32It’s interesting seeing unionization back on the table in the 2020s. I worked at a union retail job for three years and saw the pros and cons firsthand. We had a problem employee who was untouchable regardless if he was completing his job duties (assuming he showed up at all). Eventually this came to a head as he would spend 30min+ in the restroom. To address this they instituted a “log all bathroom breaks” policy _f…
The worst case scenario with a union is bad employees taking advantage of a company. Without unions, the worst case is a bad company taking advantage of its workers.
If you are a capital owner, I can see why unions are bad. If you are a worker,(i.e. 99.9% of people), I have no idea why you wouldn't want unions.
Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
"So...we unionized and got better job protections and benefits than before, and you're punishing us." Apple: "Yes." "...by offering better benefits to other stores employees?" Apple: "Yes. We're giving them nicer stuff than we gave you. This is why you shouldn't unionize." "Hmm. By unionizing just our one store, we improved benefits for us, but also for ALL the non-union employees in the company?!" Apple: "er....no"…
No, the point is they don't give the union store benefits. So by unionizing they make stuff better for everyone but themselves.
Suppose they'll u ionise all stores in the country, then what is your move?
Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff
#34Big companies are now so large that they can influence policy and politicians in a way that it is impossible for the individual to fight back. If only there was a way for us to get together...as people...to unite as a group. To hold hands and stand up for ourselves. To become so large that the corporations and politicians must notice us and must change. Fucking Union!
>If only there was a way for us to get together...as people...to unite as a group. To hold hands and stand up for ourselves. To become so large that the corporations and politicians must notice us and must change.
Isn't that what the state is? It has all of that, plus a monopoly on violence, which a union doesn't have.
Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff
#35Big companies are now so large that they can influence policy and politicians in a way that it is impossible for the individual to fight back. If only there was a way for us to get together...as people...to unite as a group. To hold hands and stand up for ourselves. To become so large that the corporations and politicians must notice us and must change. Fucking Union!
>If only there was a way for us to get together...as people...to unite as a group. To hold hands and stand up for ourselves. To become so large that the corporations and politicians must notice us and must change. Isn't that what the state is? It has all of that, plus a monopoly on violence, which a union doesn't have.
No, remember we're anti-local government. We want a massive centralized federal government that is to large to care about the peasants in a certain state.
Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff
#36Big companies are now so large that they can influence policy and politicians in a way that it is impossible for the individual to fight back. If only there was a way for us to get together...as people...to unite as a group. To hold hands and stand up for ourselves. To become so large that the corporations and politicians must notice us and must change. Fucking Union!
This is where Union on paper falls apart. Eventually Unions (like large companies and governments) end up being part of the issue they were forced to solve. You don't have a choice, you have to join the union that runs the area. Union boss is a real thing. It's just another government you're forced to pay taxes too even if you don't want to be a part of it.
Unions are great at first though.
Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff
#37It’s interesting seeing unionization back on the table in the 2020s. I worked at a union retail job for three years and saw the pros and cons firsthand. We had a problem employee who was untouchable regardless if he was completing his job duties (assuming he showed up at all). Eventually this came to a head as he would spend 30min+ in the restroom. To address this they instituted a “log all bathroom breaks” policy _f…
The worst case scenario with a union is bad employees taking advantage of a company. Without unions, the worst case is a bad company taking advantage of its workers. If you are a capital owner, I can see why unions are bad. If you are a worker,(i.e. 99.9% of people), I have no idea why you wouldn't want unions.
Some unions can neglect certain locals, especially if the local is small and distinct from the union's 'main area'.
For example, if a group of retail employees forms a new local for a large office worker union, the large union may not put much effort or many resources into achieving a 'good agreement' for the retail employees (because it's not worth the prospective increase in dues). Then, the 'good employees' will leave out of frustration, and only 'bad apples' remain, until the retailer shutters the store for under-performance.
Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, when I say “didn’t show up” I meant he called in “sick” every week to the point my manger would need to schedule on the assumption he would call off. Once he did completely stop showing up he was still on the schedule for months due to union contract stipulations as he was full-time. The bathroom policy was put in place after having multiple meetings with the district manager.
> he would spend 30min+ in the restroom > The bathroom policy was put in place after having multiple meetings with the district manager. Did he have health issues? I have never seen a healthy adult hide in the Bathroom. Is this something that happens? Has an effort been made to figure out whats wrong with them? I have also had a junior colleague and a family member go through stomach related issues where they require…
> For every 'lazy' or 'unproductive' employee i've seen, I can name two that create negative productivity for an entire team through office politics and maneuvering.
Is there a reason to assume the same ratio exists across all businesses?
Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff
#39Big companies are now so large that they can influence policy and politicians in a way that it is impossible for the individual to fight back. If only there was a way for us to get together...as people...to unite as a group. To hold hands and stand up for ourselves. To become so large that the corporations and politicians must notice us and must change. Fucking Union!
>If only there was a way for us to get together...as people...to unite as a group. To hold hands and stand up for ourselves. To become so large that the corporations and politicians must notice us and must change. Isn't that what the state is? It has all of that, plus a monopoly on violence, which a union doesn't have.
A union more directly puts power in to the hands of workers than does the state.
Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Usually union employees can be fired if there is "just cause". Not showing up for work at all would definitely to considered "just cause" for most unions I've been involved in. Did no one even try to fire him or was he related to someone in a management position? Being in a union doesn't mean you're "untouchable", it just means you can't be fired without hard proof that the worker is not doing what they are hired to…
> Not showing up for work at all would definitely to considered "just cause" for most unions I've been involved in Not with some of the one I have had to deal with. There are tons of way to justify not coming to work and some unions representative (not all !) take a posture of « we will fight tooth and nail for every single employee that gets fired regardless of the reason ». This includes having handbooks of all the…
> There are tons of way to justify not coming to work and some unions representative (not all !) take a posture of « we will fight tooth and nail for every single employee that gets fired regardless of the reason ». This includes having handbooks of all the legal options at your disposal that are hard to counteract by management.
As they should. This is the entire point of a union, to act as your collaborative defensive line against your employer. You argument is essentially the same as “well, if we had universal healthcare, homeless/minimum wage people would use it too!”
OP makes it sound like this person was egregiously not doing his job. I’m sorry, but there isn’t a union agreement in the world that lets you No Call/No Show repeatedly and be fine. This is anti-Union FUD.
> In their views, unions exist as a counter power vs management so they need to fight every single possible decision
Yes, exactly. As they should. It’s the exact same logic as employers fighting every Unemployment claim, every workman’s comp claim, etc. If you don’t, you’ve moved the goalposts to a lesser defendable point.