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Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

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11–20 of 93 posts

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#11

It’s interesting seeing unionization back on the table in the 2020s. I worked at a union retail job for three years and saw the pros and cons firsthand. We had a problem employee who was untouchable regardless if he was completing his job duties (assuming he showed up at all). Eventually this came to a head as he would spend 30min+ in the restroom. To address this they instituted a “log all bathroom breaks” policy _f…

Usually union employees can be fired if there is "just cause". Not showing up for work at all would definitely to considered "just cause" for most unions I've been involved in. Did no one even try to fire him or was he related to someone in a management position? Being in a union doesn't mean you're "untouchable", it just means you can't be fired without hard proof that the worker is not doing what they are hired to…

> Not showing up for work at all would definitely to considered "just cause" for most unions I've been involved in

Not with some of the one I have had to deal with. There are tons of way to justify not coming to work and some unions representative (not all !) take a posture of « we will fight tooth and nail for every single employee that gets fired regardless of the reason ». This includes having handbooks of all the legal options at your disposal that are hard to counteract by management.

In their views, unions exist as a counter power vs management so they need to fight every single possible decision.

There are some unions that are taking a different approach and that are focusing one or or two issues that are important to them. They will be vocal about those, but be a bit less concerned by the rest unless there is some obvious abuse.

The thing is that it’s really hard to tell which way it’s going to fall.

And it’s also not obvious to tell which approach gives the best results.

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#12

Looking forward to the headlines of Apple taunting the Glasgow staff by offering benefits to other stores but not them, with the defense that the new benefits aren't part of the Glasgow agreement.

You might want to look into Glasgow's history with the trade unions.

When it comes to things like this, Glasgow is the epitome of "fuck around and find out".

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#13

As an Apple investor, I wish that Apple would do more to make working conditions such that the retail employees would be less likely to want to join a union. A large share of the employee grievances will be things not related to pay and could be helped by having ways for the employees in the stores to communicate their needs to corporate.

Why would you not want the employees to join a union?

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#14

It’s interesting seeing unionization back on the table in the 2020s. I worked at a union retail job for three years and saw the pros and cons firsthand. We had a problem employee who was untouchable regardless if he was completing his job duties (assuming he showed up at all). Eventually this came to a head as he would spend 30min+ in the restroom. To address this they instituted a “log all bathroom breaks” policy _f…

If problem employees are the cost of employers being reined in and not abusing employees with no recourse, so be it. All systems have some sort of drag on them, the question is not elimination of that drag, but how much you’re comfortable living with.

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not incompatible with unionisation. Union employees still have company bosses who will hopefully try to make their working environment better for them. What won't change is the employment contract, as that will be negotiated collectively, but those are typically the same for all employees anyway, at least for hourly waged jobs like this. I don't think there's really much of a downside to unionisation here. It'…

> I don't think there's really much of a downside to unionisation here. This thread started off from the perspective of an apple investor not a retail employee. As an investor, I think there is a real downside to unionization.

And that real downside is that it affects your stock portfolio. It improves the life of those unionizing, but that has no direct benefit to your bank account, so you wish they'd just accept the low wages, right?

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#16

Looking forward to the headlines of Apple taunting the Glasgow staff by offering benefits to other stores but not them, with the defense that the new benefits aren't part of the Glasgow agreement.

You might want to look into Glasgow's history with the trade unions. When it comes to things like this, Glasgow is the epitome of "fuck around and find out".

>Glasgow is the epitome of "fuck around and find out"

As a non-UK-an, can I ask what happened?

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#17
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually union employees can be fired if there is "just cause". Not showing up for work at all would definitely to considered "just cause" for most unions I've been involved in. Did no one even try to fire him or was he related to someone in a management position? Being in a union doesn't mean you're "untouchable", it just means you can't be fired without hard proof that the worker is not doing what they are hired to…

> Not showing up for work at all would definitely to considered "just cause" for most unions I've been involved in Not with some of the one I have had to deal with. There are tons of way to justify not coming to work and some unions representative (not all !) take a posture of « we will fight tooth and nail for every single employee that gets fired regardless of the reason ». This includes having handbooks of all the…

[deleted]

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to look into Glasgow's history with the trade unions. When it comes to things like this, Glasgow is the epitome of "fuck around and find out".

>Glasgow is the epitome of "fuck around and find out" As a non-UK-an, can I ask what happened?

https://electricscotland.com/history/union/chapter20.htm

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Clydeside

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Barbour

and more recently,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nae_Pasaran

You should watch that last one, when you get a chance.

Edit: In the mid-1980s when South African Apartheid was a matter of global protest, Glasgow City Council renamed St George's Place in the centre of Glasgow to Nelson Mandela Place, just to mess with the South African Consulate.

Glasgow is a wonderful city full of wonderful people, but don't piss them off.

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#19

Looking forward to the headlines of Apple taunting the Glasgow staff by offering benefits to other stores but not them, with the defense that the new benefits aren't part of the Glasgow agreement.

"So...we unionized and got better job protections and benefits than before, and you're punishing us."

Apple: "Yes."

"...by offering better benefits to other stores employees?"

Apple: "Yes. We're giving them nicer stuff than we gave you. This is why you shouldn't unionize."

"Hmm. By unionizing just our one store, we improved benefits for us, but also for ALL the non-union employees in the company?!"

Apple: "er....no"

"Well, if we hadn't unionized, we wouldn't have gotten better benefits, and you only improved their benefits to 'punish' us..."

Apple: "no, wait..."

"uuuunnnHHH! If we unionize another store, will you punish us harder, daddy!?"

Apple: >:(

Re: Apple signs union agreement for Glasgow Apple Store staff

#20

It’s interesting seeing unionization back on the table in the 2020s. I worked at a union retail job for three years and saw the pros and cons firsthand. We had a problem employee who was untouchable regardless if he was completing his job duties (assuming he showed up at all). Eventually this came to a head as he would spend 30min+ in the restroom. To address this they instituted a “log all bathroom breaks” policy _f…

If problem employees are the cost of employers being reined in and not abusing employees with no recourse, so be it. All systems have some sort of drag on them, the question is not elimination of that drag, but how much you’re comfortable living with.

This employee and another… lackadaisical employee were both full time. Full time guaranteed more hours, sick pay, accrued paid vacation time, actual healthcare, etc.

Pretty cozy benefits for retail work which is thanks to the union.

At the same time multiple part time workers, such as myself, would pick up slack or work OT due to these unmotivated workers. It definitely lead to a weird culture.

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