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Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

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Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#31

Post by ecmascript »

stinos wrote: post #7
ecmascript wrote: post #3

This is really, really scary and what scares me even more is these proposals just seems to keep coming and in time some of them will probably make their way into law. Used to be for EU but if any regulation like this goes through, I will immedietly vote for any politician willing to exit the EU. Honestly, I am kind of for leaving the EU anyway since I don't like the large centralized power it has become. There is lit…

I will immedietly vote for any politician willing to exit the EU Willing to exit EU might however be completely orthogonal to preferences regarding surveillance laws. I mean, such politician might just as well propose similar laws like Chat Control after the country leaves the EU. And looking at some of the specimens around here that would not even be unlikely.

I don't understand how this is an argument for staying though, even if so many brings it up.

It feels more or less impossible to influence EU-politicians. I don't know who they are, what they do or barely how the EU system works. It is too complicated for laymen to get into in general.

If a local politician proposes a stupid law as this one, I can call them up on my phone while when EU does it you don't even know it's happening.

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#32

Post by nonrandomstring »

dijit wrote: post #9
pskisf wrote: post #5

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem. - Thomas Jefferson

Roughly translates to: I prefer liberty with danger to peace with servitude/slavery.

The right to be insecure is one of the least appreciated in our time [1].

[1] https://www.ted.com/talks/eve_ensler_what_security_means_to_...

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#34

Post by nonrandomstring »

xwolfi wrote: post #11
dijit wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roughly translates to: I prefer liberty with danger to peace with servitude/slavery.

And perfectly translates to: Better dangerous liberty than quiet servitude. Not sure why you needed to make such an awkward rough translation when the concepts are clear, the idiom known and the sentence so short in the target language, which is the language of the author as well, thus sharing bias in its latin... But I think this sentence is itself dangerous in its shortness, it almost makes you believe it's a discr…

The issue is not whether they're intrinsically orthogonal or principle components, but that men make them so.

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#35

Post by tokai »

ecmascript wrote: post #31
stinos wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will immedietly vote for any politician willing to exit the EU Willing to exit EU might however be completely orthogonal to preferences regarding surveillance laws. I mean, such politician might just as well propose similar laws like Chat Control after the country leaves the EU. And looking at some of the specimens around here that would not even be unlikely.

I don't understand how this is an argument for staying though, even if so many brings it up. It feels more or less impossible to influence EU-politicians. I don't know who they are, what they do or barely how the EU system works. It is too complicated for laymen to get into in general. If a local politician proposes a stupid law as this one, I can call them up on my phone while when EU does it you don't even know it'…

>I don't know who they are, what they do

It is extremely easy to find out. You even had an election where you voted for one of them (if you showed up for the vote). Here you go [0]. Start sending them emails about this.

[0] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/search/advanced?count...

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#36

Post by ecmascript »

msm_ wrote: post #29
ecmascript wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I know, sorry to hear that but: 1. It is way easier to change the minds of the people in your home country rather than in several countries. 2. My country of birth, Sweden, has more history of rejecting stuff like that.

Can your country of birth lobby in the EU to stop laws like this?

Honestly, I would believe some of them already do it. You're reading the news from a Swedish company anyway so we use to be pretty vigilant on privacy issues.

Sweden is a small player compared to Germany and France, so I am uncertain how much weight our words have.

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#37

Post by prof-dr-ir »

The making of EU legislation can take years and is surprisingly transparent; in particular, the public is asked for input at several stages. So I am surprised that the article does not provide any link to an actual proposal - without it, how am I going to believe its claims?

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#38

Post by pammf »

pelasaco wrote: post #27

Just to play the advocate's advocate here: When the internet became so safe? They push, we push back. They block, we circumvent. That was always about that. We old hackers are used to that. Nothing will work out of the box, and it will be fine. Just embrace and adapt it.

Well, isn't this already part of pushing back?

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#39

Post by Hizonner »

gadders wrote: post #18

Is this more or less stringent than the UK law?

Somewhat different in emphasis. Less about a vague "duty of care" and more about detailed, specific spying mandates. Different enforcement structure. Maybe slightly less chaotic in its impact. Still a giant shitshow.

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#40

Post by tephra »

prof-dr-ir wrote: post #37

The making of EU legislation can take years and is surprisingly transparent; in particular, the public is asked for input at several stages. So I am surprised that the article does not provide any link to an actual proposal - without it, how am I going to believe its claims?

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=COM%3A20...

And the feedback https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-sa...

I should note (as someone who has been fighting against this) is that commissioner Johansson has avoided meeting with civil servant groups in the lead up to this proposal (we have tried _multiple_ times to get a meeting).

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