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Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

mullvad.net

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Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#11

Post by xwolfi »

dijit wrote: post #9
pskisf wrote: post #5

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem. - Thomas Jefferson

Roughly translates to: I prefer liberty with danger to peace with servitude/slavery.

And perfectly translates to: Better dangerous liberty than quiet servitude.

Not sure why you needed to make such an awkward rough translation when the concepts are clear, the idiom known and the sentence so short in the target language, which is the language of the author as well, thus sharing bias in its latin...

But I think this sentence is itself dangerous in its shortness, it almost makes you believe it's a discrete dichotomy rather than, as usual, a loooong gradient between two extreme, with orthogonal concerns adding to it to make it a zigzag. Better very rich in a quiet dictatorship than middle class in a chaotic old democracy, for instance. Or better poor in a clientelist theocracy than poor in an industrial dictatorship.

It doesn't really make sense in the end, since freedom and servitude are not related to danger or safety. You can have all together, at different time or degree, for different people and geographies, regarding different slice of concern (freedom is so so vague, for instance).

"Better have what you can tolerate for what you can afford, than something unaffordable or untolerable", is probably more interesting to understand the compromises real people make everyday, but I guess, so obvious we prefer to dream of a dichotomy :D

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#12

Post by ecmascript »

maxehmookau wrote: post #8
ecmascript wrote: post #3

This is really, really scary and what scares me even more is these proposals just seems to keep coming and in time some of them will probably make their way into law. Used to be for EU but if any regulation like this goes through, I will immedietly vote for any politician willing to exit the EU. Honestly, I am kind of for leaving the EU anyway since I don't like the large centralized power it has become. There is lit…

EU commissioners propose laws, they don't vote for them. The EU parliament will probably reject this. As a brit, let me tell you that leaving the EU will not solve this problem. Your local politicians will just do that anyway.

I do not think so, Swedens population has a history of rejecting mass surveillance ideas and lot's of privacy advocating stuff has come from Sweden like Mullvad and The Pirate Bay.

Anyway, it is way easier for a citizen to affect your local politician rather than some other random countries politicians that don't care about you.

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#13

Post by miohtama »

maxehmookau wrote: post #8
ecmascript wrote: post #3

This is really, really scary and what scares me even more is these proposals just seems to keep coming and in time some of them will probably make their way into law. Used to be for EU but if any regulation like this goes through, I will immedietly vote for any politician willing to exit the EU. Honestly, I am kind of for leaving the EU anyway since I don't like the large centralized power it has become. There is lit…

EU commissioners propose laws, they don't vote for them. The EU parliament will probably reject this. As a brit, let me tell you that leaving the EU will not solve this problem. Your local politicians will just do that anyway.

Even if the EU parliament passes a neutered bill, it is going to be lose. Some politicians seem to have inane will (and lobby money) to pass these laws no matter what, including in bit by bit in smaller pieces and partial defeats.

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#14

Post by jiriknesl »

maxehmookau wrote: post #8
ecmascript wrote: post #3

This is really, really scary and what scares me even more is these proposals just seems to keep coming and in time some of them will probably make their way into law. Used to be for EU but if any regulation like this goes through, I will immedietly vote for any politician willing to exit the EU. Honestly, I am kind of for leaving the EU anyway since I don't like the large centralized power it has become. There is lit…

EU commissioners propose laws, they don't vote for them. The EU parliament will probably reject this. As a brit, let me tell you that leaving the EU will not solve this problem. Your local politicians will just do that anyway.

Yes, but it's easier to influence politicians in your country than in the EU. It's easier to influence politicians in your county council than in your country. It's easier to influence politicians in your town hall than in your county council.

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#15

Post by dijit »

xwolfi wrote: post #11
dijit wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roughly translates to: I prefer liberty with danger to peace with servitude/slavery.

And perfectly translates to: Better dangerous liberty than quiet servitude. Not sure why you needed to make such an awkward rough translation when the concepts are clear, the idiom known and the sentence so short in the target language, which is the language of the author as well, thus sharing bias in its latin... But I think this sentence is itself dangerous in its shortness, it almost makes you believe it's a discr…

I don't know the quote, I was just translating the Latin for people.

I have to say though, since you come off as quite rude: It doesn't "perfectly translate" to any single thing in English.

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#16

Post by jiriknesl »

988747 wrote: post #6
TheFattestNinja wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brexit happened and I'm not sure the UK tech law landscape on these topics is a lot more reassuring. But who knows.

Actually, seems like one of the reasons for Brexit was ability to do even more surveillance and other totalitarian practices without EU interfering. Not surprising given the fact that UK is one of the Five Eyes.

Do you have proof for such a claim?

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#19

Post by esskay »

ecmascript wrote: post #3

This is really, really scary and what scares me even more is these proposals just seems to keep coming and in time some of them will probably make their way into law. Used to be for EU but if any regulation like this goes through, I will immedietly vote for any politician willing to exit the EU. Honestly, I am kind of for leaving the EU anyway since I don't like the large centralized power it has become. There is lit…

Be careful what you wish for. Here in the UK since leaving the government have been doing all they can to ensure mass surveilance and repression becomes more and more common, without those "pesky" EU laws stopping them.

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#20

Post by DoingIsLearning »

As a pro-EU citizen I feel more and more inclined to agree on some of the Brexit rhetoric.

Commissioners have shown multiple times that they are too permeable to lobbying, too willing to water down tough environmental regulation, and too keen on 'security' surveillance.

So far the EU parliament members have balanced the act with some sanity. But the power and lack of transparency of the EC both with regards to lobbying and conflict of interest is very concerning.

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