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A genius at suffering

newcriterion.com

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Re: A genius at suffering

#31

Post by low_tech_love »

csdvrx wrote: post #16
bsenftner wrote: post #8

At risk of triggering an uncomfortable discussion, why does it seem that European intellectuals in general appear more extreme than any of their American counterparts; and Eastern European Intellectuals take that extremeness even further, ultimately creating Communism. Is it "American Pragmatism" that prevents the extreme intellectual from forming in the United States? Is it a cultural respect for complete commitment…

I also wonder why. It seems to be that Europe doesn't like comfort or pleasure. I like the simple pleasure of drinking very cold water, so I keep water bottles in my fridge, and add icecubes from my fridge ice dispenser. Even separately, these things were almost impossible to get when I travelled to Europe: most bars and restaurants said they didn't have ice. And the cold water was maybe less warm than the ambient ai…

They sure as *%#$ like comfort and they do enjoy pleasure, but it’s just a very different perspective to the American one. In Europe they see comfort in just fitting in with the standard things from the status quo; questioning too much and adding too many individual, custom things is seen negatively. In other words, ”we don’t need ice here, stop being such a snowflake.” In America having that individual touch is a more widespread thing, it has more value.

Re: A genius at suffering

#32

Post by kergonath »

danny_codes wrote: post #17
csdvrx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also wonder why. It seems to be that Europe doesn't like comfort or pleasure. I like the simple pleasure of drinking very cold water, so I keep water bottles in my fridge, and add icecubes from my fridge ice dispenser. Even separately, these things were almost impossible to get when I travelled to Europe: most bars and restaurants said they didn't have ice. And the cold water was maybe less warm than the ambient ai…

> It seems to be that Europe doesn't like comfort or pleasure. Ah yes, Amsterdam, the city known for its seriousness and lack of fun.

Or Berlin. Or Rome, Paris, London, Barcelona… These famous cities where people hate enjoying themselves and never party ever.

That said, I have to admit, I dislike ice-cold water.

Re: A genius at suffering

#33

Post by tstrimple »

csdvrx wrote: post #16
bsenftner wrote: post #8

At risk of triggering an uncomfortable discussion, why does it seem that European intellectuals in general appear more extreme than any of their American counterparts; and Eastern European Intellectuals take that extremeness even further, ultimately creating Communism. Is it "American Pragmatism" that prevents the extreme intellectual from forming in the United States? Is it a cultural respect for complete commitment…

I also wonder why. It seems to be that Europe doesn't like comfort or pleasure. I like the simple pleasure of drinking very cold water, so I keep water bottles in my fridge, and add icecubes from my fridge ice dispenser. Even separately, these things were almost impossible to get when I travelled to Europe: most bars and restaurants said they didn't have ice. And the cold water was maybe less warm than the ambient ai…

Americans traded universal healthcare, free college education, maternity and paternity leave, vacation time, and the right to not be murdered by a cop “fearing for his life” for ice cold water. A very pragmatic trade it is said.

Re: A genius at suffering

#34

Post by cntainer »

csdvrx wrote: post #16
bsenftner wrote: post #8

At risk of triggering an uncomfortable discussion, why does it seem that European intellectuals in general appear more extreme than any of their American counterparts; and Eastern European Intellectuals take that extremeness even further, ultimately creating Communism. Is it "American Pragmatism" that prevents the extreme intellectual from forming in the United States? Is it a cultural respect for complete commitment…

I also wonder why. It seems to be that Europe doesn't like comfort or pleasure. I like the simple pleasure of drinking very cold water, so I keep water bottles in my fridge, and add icecubes from my fridge ice dispenser. Even separately, these things were almost impossible to get when I travelled to Europe: most bars and restaurants said they didn't have ice. And the cold water was maybe less warm than the ambient ai…

What a funny perspective, thanks for the laugh. I'm sure there isn't anyone in Europe who enjoys cold water, most of them lost their lives or got deported to the US during the last Tepid Water war /jk.

The fact that you like very cold water and equate that to pleasure doesn't mean that everyone does the same. I don't enjoy cold water with ice in it but I do enjoy very cold beer. Does that mean I don't like comfort or pleasure?

Seems to me that pleasure is linked to personal preferences and also follows cultural lines (regional, national, ethnic, etc).

Funny story, somewhat similar to your ice-water tale. Went to Greece (Crete) on holiday and I couldn't get my hands on a fresh lemonade no matter what. Lemons were literally falling off trees on the side of the road but serving lemonade was just not part of the local culture. Their view was, why would I want to drink water mixed with lemon juice when I could have better things like fresh orange juice.

Does this mean that Cretans don't like pleasure? No, it just means that they find pleasure in different things.

Re: A genius at suffering

#35

Post by bsenftner »

AnonMessiah wrote: post #30
bsenftner wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not pro slavery; in fact: Throughout his entire life, Thomas Jefferson was publicly a consistent opponent of slavery. Calling it a “moral depravity” and a “hideous blot,” he believed that slavery presented the greatest threat to the survival of the new American nation. Jefferson also thought that slavery was contrary to the laws of nature, which decreed that everyone had a right to personal liberty." https://www…

>"...enslaved more than six-hundred people over the course of his life" Seems to me that if you do own 600 people over the course of your life you, at least implicitly, condone slavery.

If you want to write him off that quickly, feel free, but you're short sighting yourself. Finding oneself in a society with slavery, Jefferson purchased slaves from owners that abused them, and then did his best to ensure others knew the cruelty of those individuals, triggering a local society shunning of them and repercussions in their church - which at the time was very powerful. Jefferson's own handling and treatment of his slaves was extremely humane considering the status quo at that time.

Re: A genius at suffering

#36

Post by wellanyway »

starkd wrote: post #13
fancybouncy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

aka fanatically telling yourself fairy tales until you blind yourself to reality

And what's it to you? That you have to make snide commments about other people's belief systems? Why are you so hostile?

Let's not pretend that preaching any religion, much less christianity, is a naive act devoid of any consequences or connotations.

Re: A genius at suffering

#38

Post by morelisp »

bsenftner wrote: post #35
AnonMessiah wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"...enslaved more than six-hundred people over the course of his life" Seems to me that if you do own 600 people over the course of your life you, at least implicitly, condone slavery.

If you want to write him off that quickly, feel free, but you're short sighting yourself. Finding oneself in a society with slavery, Jefferson purchased slaves from owners that abused them, and then did his best to ensure others knew the cruelty of those individuals, triggering a local society shunning of them and repercussions in their church - which at the time was very powerful. Jefferson's own handling and treatm…

> Jefferson's own handling and treatment of his slaves was extremely humane considering the status quo at that time.

Literally a pro-slavery intellectual position defended on HN, thx for the case study.

Re: A genius at suffering

#39

Post by bsenftner »

morelisp wrote: post #38
bsenftner wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to write him off that quickly, feel free, but you're short sighting yourself. Finding oneself in a society with slavery, Jefferson purchased slaves from owners that abused them, and then did his best to ensure others knew the cruelty of those individuals, triggering a local society shunning of them and repercussions in their church - which at the time was very powerful. Jefferson's own handling and treatm…

> Jefferson's own handling and treatment of his slaves was extremely humane considering the status quo at that time. Literally a pro-slavery intellectual position defended on HN, thx for the case study.

This is why we can't have real intellectual discussions on HN: assholes like this projecting and defaming. Nothing of your claim is true.
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