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Montrealer found guilty of hate against Jews after Daily Stormer post

montrealgazette.com

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Re: Montrealer found guilty of hate against Jews after Daily Stormer post

#31

Post by incomingpain »

hinata08 wrote: post #26
ipaddr wrote: post #12

This is a reminder that free speech laws are different in Canada. Canadians do not have the right to free speech the way Americans do. Property rights are also missing.

>free speech laws are different in Canada do you mean Canada actually has laws to define what you may say or not ? I'm always upset with Americans companies when they moderate the content with their ToS and arbitrary moderation. Often they even delegated to users, by threatening to ban them if they didn't delete something they don't like. They don't even properly define what they don't like, so that you delete any co…

>do you mean Canada actually has laws to define what you may say or not ?

Yes in several levels.

The one violated in OP is hate speech. You're explicitly not allowed to say anything which may incite another person to "hate" anything at all. As a good person, you generally avoid doing this but it has become a tool in politics. In Canadian politics, to silence a politician, you simply assert they are racist or some sort of hate identifier.

The newer level, the one which gave Jordan Peterson his fame is compelled speech. You are compelled by the government to speak certain words in certain situations.

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/taking-stock-of-old-s...

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2020/02/14/news/scheer-blas...

https://www.facebook.com/democraticsocialistscanada/photos/a...

All your political opponents are racist, sexist, misogynists and therefore are silenced. You don't get to see what they say.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/journalists-question-media-...

The media isn't legally allowed to cover any racists... funny how the government also pays all the media...

Re: Montrealer found guilty of hate against Jews after Daily Stormer post

#32

Post by cudgy »

pydry wrote: post #21
marginalia_nu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno, seems tricky. If we equate keyboard warriors with the people who actually commit atrocities, we're in a sense lowering the severity of those atrocities to be equal to being a sad edge lord.

The ones who actually commit atrocities always start out as edgelords.

Edgelords always start out as babies, so … babies commit atrocities. Where does that get us?

Re: Montrealer found guilty of hate against Jews after Daily Stormer post

#33

Post by 0cVlTeIATBs »

AustinDev wrote: post #5

Anyone know what he actually posted? I'm trying to find that to get some context. I'm sure it was awful if it was on the Daily Stormer but, I'm interested to see how awful. Edit: I found one of the articles referenced in the complaint[1]. They allege he wrote 800 articles for the site but that's the only one they're associating to him as far as I can tell? However, I'm not very good at reading legal docs. Located her…

Thanks for the links. Without them any discussion is about hearsay.

Re: Montrealer found guilty of hate against Jews after Daily Stormer post

#34

Post by kashunstva »

Guid_NewGuid wrote: post #24
danw1979 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The words you say can make you a Nazi.

I'd agree here and I think there's a big flaw in how this period of history is taught to people in the 'victorious' powers. Generally a high-school level of history (assuming you're paying the normal level of attention) leaves you with the impression that Germans got sad and mad and poor because of the Treaty of Versailles, hyperinflation and the 'German martial spirit' or something and then Hitler appeared out of no…

> how this period of history is taught to people in the 'victorious' powers.

By placing the word _victorious_ in quotes, you clearly have some alternative viewpoint about military victory in mind. Given that Germany tendered its unconditional surrender to the Allied forces in Europe, I don’t see how that’s in question; but maybe I’m missing your point.

Re: Montrealer found guilty of hate against Jews after Daily Stormer post

#35

Post by 3pac »

3pac wrote: post #30
hinata08 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>free speech laws are different in Canada do you mean Canada actually has laws to define what you may say or not ? I'm always upset with Americans companies when they moderate the content with their ToS and arbitrary moderation. Often they even delegated to users, by threatening to ban them if they didn't delete something they don't like. They don't even properly define what they don't like, so that you delete any co…

What is objective about a law? It still comes down to judgment calls. First Amendment aside, I fear that restricting speech would result in a backlash from Neo-Nazi types, or worse, a national situation like The Gulag Archipelago describes. How about teaching to think and write more accurately instead. "I would not have subjected my child to the humiliation of wearing a slave collar and manacles, and then photographi…

HN does not let me edit now, but I regret using the derogatory term "keyboard nazi", lest somebody take it as a challenge to prove they are more than that.

Disaffected people have largely the same insecurities as everybody else, such as housing, job, normal human relationship and sexual issues, and addressing them is key, as opposed to allowing blame-shifting and scapegoating to fester.

Re: Montrealer found guilty of hate against Jews after Daily Stormer post

#36

Post by dsfyu404ed »

kashunstva wrote: post #34
Guid_NewGuid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree here and I think there's a big flaw in how this period of history is taught to people in the 'victorious' powers. Generally a high-school level of history (assuming you're paying the normal level of attention) leaves you with the impression that Germans got sad and mad and poor because of the Treaty of Versailles, hyperinflation and the 'German martial spirit' or something and then Hitler appeared out of no…

> how this period of history is taught to people in the 'victorious' powers. By placing the word _victorious_ in quotes, you clearly have some alternative viewpoint about military victory in mind. Given that Germany tendered its unconditional surrender to the Allied forces in Europe, I don’t see how that’s in question; but maybe I’m missing your point.

I think he means to include places like Denmark, France, Norway and other nations that weren't militarily victorious but for whom post-ww2 regime change was a reversion of what had been implemented by Nazi Germany and who generally teach that period of history the same way Britain and the US do.

Re: Montrealer found guilty of hate against Jews after Daily Stormer post

#37

Post by wittycardio »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #18
CommitSyn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spreading ideas on the internet is spreading ideas to other meat sponges. I wouldn't consider most of the mass shooters of the past decade to be anything more than sad edge lords, but they've ended a ton of lives and ruined far more. Most skinheads are in loosely organized groups, not American History X or Sons of Anarchy with massive financial backing and tight-knit organization.

People have ideas, ideas don't have people. If it was true that merely being exposed to an idea had the ability to take over and control a person like a mindless puppet, then democracy would simply not work, instead the only viable option would be strict control over thoughts and communication prevent harmful ideas from taking over peoples minds.

People are very susceptible to ideas. That's the premise of political propaganda and the entire advertising industry. It's not clear what the solution is but most people are consumers of ideas, not producers.
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