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‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’

#31

Post by woodruffw »

kcplate wrote: post #27
woodruffw wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've reduced it down to a single scenario, but that's one of many: it seems just as plausible that the police shot at him, he shot back, and then they hit him multiple times. It also seems plausible (although less likely) that his gun was fired by someone else. Either way, the important fact is that we do not know more because there is no bodycam footage.

>it seems just as plausible that the police shot at him, he shot back, and then they hit him multiple times. I think for something to be deemed “just as plausible”, you would need to demonstrate that by in large police fire on subjects first when unprovoked at a greater rate than when provoked. I am not saying that police never act unprovoked, but I’d bet it is statistically higher that when there is a weapons discha…

> you would need to demonstrate that by in large police fire on subjects first when unprovoked at a greater rate than when provoked.

Not exactly: I'd only need to demonstrate that police do fire on citizens with some regularity, without regard for whether they also happen to fire on people shooting at them (which I'd expect them to!).

And indeed, they do[1].

[1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/polic...

Re: ‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’

#32

Post by Quillbert182 »

woodruffw wrote: post #26
sokoloff wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ballistics evidence and likely residue on the hands of the deceased will almost surely support the thesis that he shot at the cops. If you point a gun at a cop, it’s not surprising that you get shot by them. (There’s no legal obligation for the police to shoot second.)

Nobody in this thread has cast serious doubt on him firing the gun. The entire matter is of chronology.

Frankly, even if he did shoot second, which is unlikely, he almost certainly pulled a gun on the police, which would justify the shooting regardless.

Re: ‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’

#33

Post by mbrameld »

gruez wrote: post #12

Title: ‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’ Reality: Activist was "protesting" (ie. camping out) at the future site of a police training facility, cops arrived to kick them out, and there was a shoot-out that resulted in the activist being shot dead and a cop being injured. I'm not sure how the title got past the editors, considering how misleading it is. It's technically true…

First, they say the analysis confirms the bullet "matched" Teran's handgun, not that the analysis confirmed the bullet was fired from the handgun. This analysis might have stopped after comparing the caliber.

Second, https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-field-of-fire...

Re: ‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’

#34

Post by Quillbert182 »

woodruffw wrote: post #30
kcplate wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d suggest that you are more likely to be shot by the police if you provoke them first than the other way around. Especially if other folks were also arrested in the same police operation without provoking the police and managed to avoid being shot and killed in the process.

> I’d suggest that you are more likely to be shot by the police if you provoke them first than the other way around. I don't dispute this. But "provocation" is not a capital crime in this country.

By "provocation" I imagine the commenter means "pulled out a weapon."

Re: ‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’

#35

Post by acheron »

gruez wrote: post #12

Title: ‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’ Reality: Activist was "protesting" (ie. camping out) at the future site of a police training facility, cops arrived to kick them out, and there was a shoot-out that resulted in the activist being shot dead and a cop being injured. I'm not sure how the title got past the editors, considering how misleading it is. It's technically true…

“Seemingly reputable publication like the guardian”

Ha. No. Now realize that every other article in the Guardian is just as deliberately misleading.

Re: ‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’

#36

Post by kcplate »

woodruffw wrote: post #31
kcplate wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it seems just as plausible that the police shot at him, he shot back, and then they hit him multiple times. I think for something to be deemed “just as plausible”, you would need to demonstrate that by in large police fire on subjects first when unprovoked at a greater rate than when provoked. I am not saying that police never act unprovoked, but I’d bet it is statistically higher that when there is a weapons discha…

> you would need to demonstrate that by in large police fire on subjects first when unprovoked at a greater rate than when provoked. Not exactly: I'd only need to demonstrate that police do fire on citizens with some regularity, without regard for whether they also happen to fire on people shooting at them (which I'd expect them to!). And indeed, they do[1]. [1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations…

Sure it happens, but if it doesn’t happen more often than unprovoked shootings. So you resort to having to multiply entities beyond necessity to make your scenario “just as plausible”.

Your scenario, while perhaps remotely possible, seems to be the most unlikely scenario within the known evidence. The most likely scenario was he took his gun and shot a cop and was promptly shot for that action which took his life. Whether or not he shot first really doesn’t matter to the situation. I am sure he was aware that a police presence in his area was possible given the protest. I think it’s likely that police identified themselves before any gunfire took place (it’s what they do, because it generally helps protect them by warning folks around them that they are police). If he was shot first, it’s entirely reasonable to believe he was aware that he was shot by police, still engaged, fired, and shot a cop.

Re: ‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’

#37

Post by amalgamated_inc »

acheron wrote: post #35
gruez wrote: post #12

Title: ‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’ Reality: Activist was "protesting" (ie. camping out) at the future site of a police training facility, cops arrived to kick them out, and there was a shoot-out that resulted in the activist being shot dead and a cop being injured. I'm not sure how the title got past the editors, considering how misleading it is. It's technically true…

“Seemingly reputable publication like the guardian” Ha. No. Now realize that every other article in the Guardian is just as deliberately misleading.

[flagged]

Re: ‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’

#38

Post by amalgamated_inc »

mbrameld wrote: post #33
gruez wrote: post #12

Title: ‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’ Reality: Activist was "protesting" (ie. camping out) at the future site of a police training facility, cops arrived to kick them out, and there was a shoot-out that resulted in the activist being shot dead and a cop being injured. I'm not sure how the title got past the editors, considering how misleading it is. It's technically true…

First, they say the analysis confirms the bullet "matched" Teran's handgun, not that the analysis confirmed the bullet was fired from the handgun. This analysis might have stopped after comparing the caliber. Second, https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-field-of-fire...

Yea AFAIK the whole "bullet gun fingerprint" idea is total bunk. You cannot tell if a specific bullet was fired from a specific gun.

Re: ‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’

#39

Post by kcplate »

acobster wrote: post #16
Quillbert182 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-01-20/gbi-invest... A bullet from his gun was found in the state trooper's abdomen, and I find it extremely hard to believe that Teran shot a state trooper after being shot multiple times, especially given cops' tendencies to shoot until a target stops moving.

That still doesn't mean he shot first.

It doesn’t, but that doesn’t matter. You still don’t get an “automatic cops won’t shoot you back” pass if they fired first.

Re: ‘Assassinated in cold blood’: activist killed protesting Georgia’s ‘Cop City’

#40

Post by nkurz »

Instead of jumping to conclusions, I think we should just wait for the body cam footage to become available. While not perfect, it will almost definitely tell a more clearer story than the unsubstantiated claims we've heard so far. Wait! You say there is no body cam footage? That the police went into the woods to make a dangerous arrest without any attempt to document their actions? Then that's easy too: assume it's murder unless they can prove otherwise by some facts beyond police testimony.

There are simply too many cases of police lying to protect each other for their testimony to be accorded much if any weight, and it's well known that the costs for honest police who testify against the transgressions of corrupt police are extremely high. The police had the ability to record exactly what happened. If there decided not to do so, we should presume they didn't want the details of what happened to come out, and we should assume that all police testimony without corroborating hard evidence is coordinated and false.

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