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Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

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Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#31

Post by worble »

asaph wrote: post #5

One of the often repeated pearls of wisdom from How to Win Friends and Influence People[0] by Dale Carnegie, is people like to talk about themselves and they’ll like you more if you let them do that in a conversation. I’m paraphrasing. This research seems to counter that. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influ...

My own personal and very much anecdotal experience of this is that's a very American view of conversations; they like to talk about themselves, what they're doing, what they've just bought, their aspirations, etc, while Europeans (and especially Brits) would find such questioning to be bad form and even privacy invasive. Obviously exceptions exist on both sides, but speaking generally.

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#32

Post by BlueTie »

There is an episode of Seinfeld where George Costanza tries to get more time in front of a woman he's interested in by leaving his hat in her apartment thinking that even though she doesn't like him - just listening to him talk over and over will eventually win her over.

There is truth in this. We're wired to connect with those within our proximity.

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#33

Post by PragmaticPulp »

asaph wrote: post #5

One of the often repeated pearls of wisdom from How to Win Friends and Influence People[0] by Dale Carnegie, is people like to talk about themselves and they’ll like you more if you let them do that in a conversation. I’m paraphrasing. This research seems to counter that. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influ...

> from How to Win Friends and Influence People[0] by Dale Carnegie

Implementing the advice in this book too literally makes for very inauthentic sounding conversation.

After reading this book, I found it easy to spot other people who had read it and were trying the techniques on me. For example, when someone uses my name 10 different times in a private conversation for no obvious reason, I have a good idea that they’re trying How To Win Friends techniques on me.

It also feels awkward when someone is trying to shape the conversation to meet some arbitrary goal, rather than having a natural and engaging conversation where both parties are actually interested in the topics being discussed. When someone is just asking me questions not because they’re interested but because they think getting me to talk about it will help them achieve some personal goal, it becomes obvious quickly.

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#34

Post by User23 »

europeanguy wrote: post #26
ergonaught wrote: post #16

"Some people find some other people more likable when those people speak more in a conversation, but drawing any other conclusions than that would be fantastically stupid on its own merits, and doubly so given the recent crises in this field." There, I fixed it for you.

Is that how you do science? I can't make my predictions 100% accurate, therefore there's nothing I can say about the subject at all.

It’s more that performing this experiments with rats would only be slightly less representative of the general population than the college undergraduates they almost certainly used.

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#36

Post by notresidenter »

yamrzou wrote: post #10
Nav_Panel wrote: post #6

Anyone know where I can find full text?

Here it is: https://send.q1q.wtf/download/e2a1de7fbb78f9e1/#8Z_K4lRRIrI1... Expires after 100 downloads or 7 days.

mirror: https://send.dorns.fr/download/5d3faa8570328d72/#QyHXHbuntYy...

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#37

Post by scatterhead »

cateblanchett wrote: post #4

i think there's an unconscious impulse to try to seem either servile or mysterious in conversations where you want to be liked or seem interesting. so it makes sense that people assume reticence to speak is a better tactic than talking a lot.

Servile or mysterious? That doesn't resonate with me at all. Could that be a function of your personality and not a widely applicable thing?

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#38

Post by sdwr »

nedwin wrote: post #21
sdwr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the conversational meta has shifted in the last 80 years. But more than that, people like to talk about themselves IFF they feel safe and unjudged.

any recs on resources on latest "conversational meta"?

Most of it is garbage!! People talking about conversation, especially online, is total crap. It's all small blogs, and the ones who aren't trying to sell you something are this weird combination of unsure and self-inflated.

I agree with ajkjk, people have gotten safe and boring.

The only advice I have is to try more, and push the envelope over time. Social restrictions feel intense but yield to sustained (unintentional) effort. Most people are some combination of cowardly and egotistical as a default position. Be like flowing water. Negative consequences don't last if you don't feed them, and positive ones build and compound.

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#39

Post by chefandy »

asaph wrote: post #5

One of the often repeated pearls of wisdom from How to Win Friends and Influence People[0] by Dale Carnegie, is people like to talk about themselves and they’ll like you more if you let them do that in a conversation. I’m paraphrasing. This research seems to counter that. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influ...

Using advice like that as suggested conversational entry points is fine, but they're abjectly oversold as "rules." Repeated attempts to steer the conversation towards yourself or another person (even skillfully) will yield vastly different results in a b2b sales call with a bored MBA in NYC than at a working class football party in Morocco or a rushed business meeting in Japan or an introvert-heavy sci fi book club in Colombia. No set of rules replace EQ and social savvy when interfacing with different personalities, cultures, contexts, and even moods.

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#40

Post by CharlesW »

ergonaught wrote: post #16

"Some people find some other people more likable when those people speak more in a conversation, but drawing any other conclusions than that would be fantastically stupid on its own merits, and doubly so given the recent crises in this field." There, I fixed it for you.

I'm going to take the charitable view and assume that what they found was true and reproducible within the artificial scenario they created, but I'm with you — conversation is a dance. It's less about "how much to talk" and more about meeting the other conversationalist(s) energy and vibe, vibrant interaction vs. monologuing, "yes, and"-ing at the right opportunities, not needlessly interrupting just to hear the sound of your voice, etc.
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