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How to hack the simulation?

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Re: How to hack the simulation?

#31

Post by kelnos »

randomsearch wrote: post #13
echelon wrote: post #7

Quintillionaires of the future may pay for elaborate escape rooms wherein the entire universe is simulated. I still think if this is all just a simulation, it's some type of archeological study.

Seems the most obvious reason for a simulation would be to check the outcome from a series of different conditions. Eg what would have happened if humanity had done X? Was that pivot important? So we could just be someone’s history homework.

If that's possible, then presumably it would be possible to "see the future", too. Simulate our current universe, and fast forward to the present day, where you have to make an important decision. Modify variables in the simulation so that you make different decisions in the simulation, and then watch the results. Then you can decide in real life based on the outcome you want, that you observed in the simulation.

The accuracy of the simulation's predictive power of course depends on whether or not you are simulating the universe exactly. But I do wonder if there are some simplifications you can make. Say, you only simulate our solar system down to the quantum level, but simulate the light from outside our solar system based on past observation, at a macro scale.

Of course, the accuracy may also depend on whether or not "God plays dice with the universe"; if quantum effects are truly random, and can affect things that happen at a macro scale, then this future-viewing might not really work.

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#32

Post by kelnos »

echelon wrote: post #7

Quintillionaires of the future may pay for elaborate escape rooms wherein the entire universe is simulated. I still think if this is all just a simulation, it's some type of archeological study.

Why just the super rich? Eventually this sort of technology might be commonplace and cheap.

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#33

Post by kelnos »

sfvisser wrote: post #10

> Many researchers have conjectured that the humankind is simulated along with the rest of the physical universe – a Simulation Hypothesis I would rather say many philosophers or even many stoned college kids instead of many researchers.

Not sure if you're joking or not, but that's not the case at all. Many researchers in "hard" science fields have explored this possibility.

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#34

Post by [deleted] »

p-e-w wrote: post #30

> [...] in addition to several respected thinkers who have explicitly shared their probability of believe with regards to living in a simulation (ex. Elon Musk >99.9999999%, Nick Bostrom 20-50%, Neil deGrasse Tyson 50%, Hans Moravec “almost certainly”, David Kipping These "respected thinkers" would do well to go back to the roots of philosophy, which is wonder and uncertainty. The sheer amount of arrogance necessary…

[deleted]

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#35

Post by 3pt14159 »

p-e-w wrote: post #30

> [...] in addition to several respected thinkers who have explicitly shared their probability of believe with regards to living in a simulation (ex. Elon Musk >99.9999999%, Nick Bostrom 20-50%, Neil deGrasse Tyson 50%, Hans Moravec “almost certainly”, David Kipping These "respected thinkers" would do well to go back to the roots of philosophy, which is wonder and uncertainty. The sheer amount of arrogance necessary…

Because they lean on their axioms in such ways that leads them to put faith in them to answer harder questions.

It's the same basis that most technically minded people have that leads them to reject the idea that God exists. They put their faith in reason and technology.

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#37

Post by TEP_Kim_Il_Sung »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #24

The problem with finding and abusing exploits is that it leads to them getting patched and the timeline reverts. Every time a game-breaking bug is exploited it gets patched and the simulation restarts. Even if you figure out a couple of juicy exploits and you manage to retain your memories across instances, congratulations you are still stuck in Samsara. My hypothesis is that the ability to remember across lifetimes…

If it's a simulation, they run in parallel. It is not.

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#38

Post by kelnos »

p-e-w wrote: post #30

> [...] in addition to several respected thinkers who have explicitly shared their probability of believe with regards to living in a simulation (ex. Elon Musk >99.9999999%, Nick Bostrom 20-50%, Neil deGrasse Tyson 50%, Hans Moravec “almost certainly”, David Kipping These "respected thinkers" would do well to go back to the roots of philosophy, which is wonder and uncertainty. The sheer amount of arrogance necessary…

I'd suggest reading up on this a bit more before passing judgment. Certainly some of these people are full of hot air, but it is actually reasonable to put ballpark numbers on the probability.

There's currently one big unknown around this: is it even possible to simulate reality to the fidelity that we seem to observe around ourselves? If the answer is yes, then the probability that our reality is simulated does actually approach near-certainty, as we then have to assume that there are "real" societies out there that have achieved this ability, and would then simulate some number of realities, possibly many. And if it's possible for the "real" societies to simulate, then it follows that it's possible for the simulations to create their own simulations, and so on and so forth, recursively. So it would then be reasonable to expect that the vast majority of realities are simulated, and thus reasonable to expect with high probability that our reality is a simulated one, because there's no reason to assume that our reality is exceedingly unusual, that is, "real".

> You don't know, at all. Why is it so difficult to just admit that to yourselves and others?

Attempting to assign probability to something is an admission that we don't know. I think you might want to step back from your emotional reaction to this, and perhaps consider that it's not arrogance that drives this sort of thinking (at least not universally), but curiosity, and (some?) people's natural desire to consider the different possibilities, and attempt to assign some sort of weight to them.

Would you say that it's also pointless to try to estimate the probability that there is intelligent life on other planets? Certainly there are very many unknowns there, but as our knowledge of the universe increases, some of those unknowns get a little less fuzzy. Eventually most of those unknowns may end up becoming known. I think it's silly to require us to wait for some arbitrary knowledge point before we make guesses and slowly refine those guesses over time.

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#39

Post by consumer451 »

I may be repeating myself here, but I stopped indulging in simulation theory once I realized one simple concept:

Simulation theory is deism for techies.

Thousands of years ago the Greeks looked to the sky and used their modern tech to explain the mechanics of the heavens. Clearly it was Helios, who drove the chariot of the Sun across the sky each day.

Simulation theory is meerly us techies applying our latest technological concepts to try to explain the complexity of our universe. Instead of god we have alien scientists. They are the ones who set the parameters of our existence, it is not as random as it seems. Whew, I feel so much better now.

It really bothers me that otherwise scientifically minded people are still wasting their time on this.

Disclaimer: I fell for this trap as well for a couple years. At least the experience gave me an appreciation for the draw of such thinking.

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#40

Post by TJSomething »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #24

The problem with finding and abusing exploits is that it leads to them getting patched and the timeline reverts. Every time a game-breaking bug is exploited it gets patched and the simulation restarts. Even if you figure out a couple of juicy exploits and you manage to retain your memories across instances, congratulations you are still stuck in Samsara. My hypothesis is that the ability to remember across lifetimes…

It seems kind of weird to me that you could exist as part of an intentionally engineered, computer simulation that could be patched and restarted, while also having past lives in the Buddhist sense.

I mean, I guess if you figured out where qualia and continuity of consciousness came from, you could engineer past lives for ethical purposes, so you aren't really killing people if you have to restart the simulation.

Alternately, if conscious observers are actually privileged over unconscious observers is some medium independent way (read: souls exist and spontaneously come into existence anywhere consciousness happens), that would just be an engineering limitation a universe developer would have to deal with.

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