How to hack the simulation? • Hacker News Board

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#21

Post by p-e-w » Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 7:02 AM UTC

xyzelement wrote: post #14

gsatic wrote: post #12

> The easiest path to escape would be getting help from someone on the outside ideally from one or more of the simulators Well let me tell you chimps something - I am in fact on the outside. And some of you have indeed made contact. But since most of you are primarily obsessed with eating, fucking, accumulating bananas and fighting over bananas we have not received a single request for escape. Do any of you want to e…

The reason we would escape is that we believe the higher worlds are deeper spiritually than ours, and we wish to elevate our spiritually. But we do not seek to escape because our real work is to elevate the spiritual level of the world we are in.

> The reason we would escape is that we believe the higher worlds are deeper spiritually than ours

Why would we assume that? It seems to me that some human-made fictional worlds, and also some human-made abstractions such as computers, are in many ways "purer" and "deeper" than the Universe that contains them. Therefore, the exact opposite seems just as plausible.

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#22

Post by RealityVoid » Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 7:03 AM UTC

I think the premises is incredibly silly. If we _were_ in a simulation, I am fairly confident we could not escape. It's like asking how Donald duck can escape from the cartoons.

We could not jailbreak either. Even in ricketty software, if the program is not designed just so that it jailbreaks, it probably won't jailbreak by accident but just crash instead.

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#23

Post by kelnos » Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 7:07 AM UTC

If we are simulated, then it (obviously) proves that such simulation is possible, which suggests that the world that is simulating ours is likely also a simulation -- as is probably the case for most other worlds we might encounter. It might take an unimaginable amount of time to break out of each successive simulation to find a top-level world that is "real".

There's also the question of what a "simulation" is, even. The obvious implementation is a super-powerful computer running some sophisticated program. But let's say technology advances to the point where a civilization could create their own universes that are separate and isolated from their own, but are observable, if such a thing even makes sense. Presumably it would be interesting to set up the starting conditions and physical constants of a new universe in different ways in order to explore different outcomes. We might call that a "simulation", but is it any less real than the universe that spawned it?

There would also be some serious ethical considerations: once you create your own universe, should you be barred from interfering with its functioning? Would it be considered unethical to "discard" that universe later on, since it would/could house life? Would it even be ethical to create a universe at all? Maybe you'd accidentally build something that results in life that is constantly suffering, due to the configuration of the universe itself?

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#24

Post by TheAceOfHearts » Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 7:08 AM UTC

The problem with finding and abusing exploits is that it leads to them getting patched and the timeline reverts. Every time a game-breaking bug is exploited it gets patched and the simulation restarts.

Even if you figure out a couple of juicy exploits and you manage to retain your memories across instances, congratulations you are still stuck in Samsara.

My hypothesis is that the ability to remember across lifetimes exists within a spectrum. Ranging from vibes and gut feelings to vividly remembering all past lifetimes like the Buddha.

It's impossible to count how many cycles the simulation has been running for, but each cycle people grow and change a little bit. Maybe when you achieve enlightenment you get to leave for the next level.

You know how they say that you should live every moment like it's your last? People don't give it much thought because they think the likelihood of instantly dying is pretty low, but they never consider that the simulation is often stopped at unexpected moments without warning. Every moment could really be your last.

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#25

Post by TheAceOfHearts » Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 7:11 AM UTC

xyzelement wrote: post #14

gsatic wrote: post #12

> The easiest path to escape would be getting help from someone on the outside ideally from one or more of the simulators Well let me tell you chimps something - I am in fact on the outside. And some of you have indeed made contact. But since most of you are primarily obsessed with eating, fucking, accumulating bananas and fighting over bananas we have not received a single request for escape. Do any of you want to e…

The reason we would escape is that we believe the higher worlds are deeper spiritually than ours, and we wish to elevate our spiritually. But we do not seek to escape because our real work is to elevate the spiritual level of the world we are in.

Banished from the Garden of Eden, it falls upon humankind's shoulders to create Heaven on Earth by crafting their own Garden.

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#26

Post by masswerk » Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 7:11 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #7

Quintillionaires of the future may pay for elaborate escape rooms wherein the entire universe is simulated. I still think if this is all just a simulation, it's some type of archeological study.

> I still think if this is all just a simulation, it's some type of archeological study

This would actually address the inherent bounding problem of any such simulation setup.

(Meaning, any entity setting up and/or controlling such a simulation would have to guarantee resources with regard to multiple exponential runaways for any given time/simulation frame. How would you do that? Wouldn't this fundamental containment problem be impossible to solve? However, if your're dealing largely with "known unknowns", as in a reenactment, there are at least some heuristics for resource allocation.)

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#27

Post by kelnos » Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 7:12 AM UTC

RealityVoid wrote: post #22

I think the premises is incredibly silly. If we _were_ in a simulation, I am fairly confident we could not escape. It's like asking how Donald duck can escape from the cartoons. We could not jailbreak either. Even in ricketty software, if the program is not designed just so that it jailbreaks, it probably won't jailbreak by accident but just crash instead.

Think of software in general in our world. Some bugs end up just crashing the program, but other bugs, if exploited properly, can give someone control of the software, or the machine itself.

The main difference is that we usually think of vulnerabilities in our software as things that are exploited from the outside. But it seems plausible to me that, if a part of the software was an AI that is intelligent enough to understand the difference between its world and ours, it could find the same sorts of vulnerabilities, and learn to exploit them.

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#28

Post by camillomiller » Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 7:15 AM UTC

tgv wrote: post #15

It's a sci-fi short story in the format of a journal article, with similar tedium.

I would argue with more tedium, as it strips it of the willfully entertaining bits and bogs it all down with callous academic writing.

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#29

Post by jjallen » Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 7:15 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #23

If we are simulated, then it (obviously) proves that such simulation is possible, which suggests that the world that is simulating ours is likely also a simulation -- as is probably the case for most other worlds we might encounter. It might take an unimaginable amount of time to break out of each successive simulation to find a top-level world that is "real". There's also the question of what a "simulation" is, even…

Are you saying "which suggests that the world that is simulating ours is likely also a simulation" because if there is another one than it is _possible_ we are therefore somewhat likely? If so, I tend to agree.

As beings, we generate many many billions of simulations every day. And because _we_ create so many, I think it is likely that other beings also create many.

Re: How to hack the simulation?

#30

Post by p-e-w » Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 7:19 AM UTC

> [...] in addition to several respected thinkers who have explicitly shared their probability of believe with regards to living in a simulation (ex. Elon Musk >99.9999999%, Nick Bostrom 20-50%, Neil deGrasse Tyson 50%, Hans Moravec “almost certainly”, David Kipping These "respected thinkers" would do well to go back to the roots of philosophy, which is wonder and uncertainty. The sheer amount of arrogance necessary to attach a number, or even just a range of numbers, to an idea so all-encompassing and beyond any human experience is mind-boggling.

You don't know, folks. Not even enough to form a reasonable "belief" about the subject. You don't know, at all. Why is it so difficult to just admit that to yourselves and others?