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S.F. sued over homeless camp sweeps: city charged with criminalizing unsheltered

sfchronicle.com

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Re: S.F. sued over homeless camp sweeps: city charged with criminalizing unsheltered

#31

Post by twblalock »

olivermarks wrote: post #10

'Unsheltered' is a propaganda word and a fig leaf for the very sad reality that we have a chronic opioid and meth crisis which tips many people over into serious mental illness. Giving these individuals expensive housing is not going to solve anything. California is a magnet for substance abuse casualties and as then SF mayor Newsom found at the end of his grandiose plan to 'end homelessness' ever more people arrived…

Realistically, the only way we can solve this is with incarceration.

This has little to do with the availability of housing, or the cost of housing. Some people will simply refuse to live in the housing that is provided. Many are so mentally ill and addicted to drugs that no amount of money we give them, either directly or indirectly, will get them off the streets.

Proposed solutions that don't involve incarceration should be ignored as unserious and unrealistic.

Is that harsh? Is it "not progressive?" Yep. Progressive attempts to solve this problem have all failed. Progressives have allowed San Francisco to turn into an open-air drug den, attracting homeless people from all over the country, and nobody should listen to their ideas anymore.

Re: S.F. sued over homeless camp sweeps: city charged with criminalizing unsheltered

#32

Post by criddell »

nostromo wrote: post #9

> The lawsuit alleges that the city violates state and federal laws, its own policies and homeless individuals’ rights by “punishing residents who have nowhere to go,” They have shelter beds available. People need to stop repeating falsehoods from activists and well-meaning people who keep saying this. Some homeless people prefer not to use them for a variety of reasons -- usually because shelters tend to be drug- an…

Why not have a variety of shelters to better serve the people who need them? It seems like you could more efficiently provide services when people of similar needs are clustered together.

Re: S.F. sued over homeless camp sweeps: city charged with criminalizing unsheltered

#33

Post by Bud »

bergenty wrote: post #8
ska wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> clean the homeless up I'm curious - what do you imagine that looks like?

Moving them to the shelters and telling them to stay off the street. If there’s no room in the shelter, providing them housing outside the city. If you have a shelter/provided housing it’s a crime to sleep on the streets. Alternatively start up workhouses and sanitariums again. Government work in exchange for a safe, clean place to sleep and food for the day. Mental sanitariums for those people that are too far gone.…

No post body was provided.

Re: S.F. sued over homeless camp sweeps: city charged with criminalizing unsheltered

#34

Post by killjoywashere »

jl6 wrote: post #19

> The complaint estimates it would take $4.8 billion to build the thousands of units San Francisco says it needs When they say “units”, do they just mean housing, or does it also include mental health and rehab units?

Keep in mind the total number of homeless outside SF vastly exceeds the number inside, so this dose of money will no doubt create "vacancies on the street" which will be quickly filled by homeless from other areas, and require an additional dose of money. As word gets out, the problem would likely get larger, not smaller. This seems like a losing proposition for one city, surrounded by water on 3 sides, to try and solve on their own.

Re: S.F. sued over homeless camp sweeps: city charged with criminalizing unsheltered

#37

Post by scelerat »

mancerayder wrote: post #23

"The ultimate goal of the lawsuit is to push the city to instead spend billions on affordable housing to provide shelter for everyone and fix its homelessness crisis, which the lawsuit says is a result of decades of failed policies and underinvestment." .. "Mayor London Breed has touted her effort to expand shelter beds and permanent supportive housing. Still, officials estimate 20,000 people will be homeless in San…

> What percentage of homeless people are locals? Maybe 50 percent or less?

70% by recent counts. 22% from California (and 14% from other bay area counties). The remaining 8% are from out of state.

https://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/2019HIRDRep...

> And almost no one was born in the city that they're homeless in

Not clear on why that is particularly relevant. Almost no one I know lives in the town they were born in, myself included. Of the few homeless people I know personally here in Oakland, all of them were born and raised in Oakland.

Re: S.F. sued over homeless camp sweeps: city charged with criminalizing unsheltered

#38

Post by jwlstn »

olivermarks wrote: post #10

'Unsheltered' is a propaganda word and a fig leaf for the very sad reality that we have a chronic opioid and meth crisis which tips many people over into serious mental illness. Giving these individuals expensive housing is not going to solve anything. California is a magnet for substance abuse casualties and as then SF mayor Newsom found at the end of his grandiose plan to 'end homelessness' ever more people arrived…

If this were true why are the giant homeless populations almost exclusively in insanely expensive housing markets like SF, LA, NYC?

Drug addiction is far worse in WV yet they don't have a major homeless problem.

Explain this discrepency please if it's all because of drugs

Re: S.F. sued over homeless camp sweeps: city charged with criminalizing unsheltered

#39

Post by runarberg »

crhulls wrote: post #14
olivermarks wrote: post #10

'Unsheltered' is a propaganda word and a fig leaf for the very sad reality that we have a chronic opioid and meth crisis which tips many people over into serious mental illness. Giving these individuals expensive housing is not going to solve anything. California is a magnet for substance abuse casualties and as then SF mayor Newsom found at the end of his grandiose plan to 'end homelessness' ever more people arrived…

Why is this comment getting downvoted? I understand in progressive circles this statement maybe controversial, but I've always admired hacker news for being slightly more sensible when it comes to shunning people for statements that are not politically correct.

Probably because it has nothing to do with the article. It is derailing the conversation from something interesting (the legality of the war against homelessness) to something unsubstantiated (whether substance abuse is to blame for homelessness, and the role of organized crime). I’m gonna go so far as to say that it is even a little flamebate-y.

Re: S.F. sued over homeless camp sweeps: city charged with criminalizing unsheltered

#40

Post by abeppu »

olivermarks wrote: post #10

'Unsheltered' is a propaganda word and a fig leaf for the very sad reality that we have a chronic opioid and meth crisis which tips many people over into serious mental illness. Giving these individuals expensive housing is not going to solve anything. California is a magnet for substance abuse casualties and as then SF mayor Newsom found at the end of his grandiose plan to 'end homelessness' ever more people arrived…

> Giving these individuals expensive housing is not going to solve anything.

The "housing first" approach does seem to have a number of successful examples. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First#Evidence_and_out...

> we have a chronic opioid and meth crisis which tips many people over into serious mental illness.

But also the most visible homeless population is not the only homeless population, and people who became homeless through other paths can get stuck. Having a home is really helpful for e.g. getting and keeping a job, resolving or managing health issues, etc.

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