Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 68 posts

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#31

Post by rad_gruchalski »

hedora wrote: post #7
lgrapenthin wrote: post #5

Wrong. It flooded the network with vacationers who normally could not afford travelling at all, while workers had to resort to their cars again to reach their jobs in time. Counting everyone who "would not have travelled by train", meaning "likely not at all" as saved emission is not very convincing.

According to the article, the study accounts for this. Do you have some evidence that it does not?

> According to the article, the study accounts for this.

Can you please point out the part of the article supporting this claim?

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#32

Post by rad_gruchalski »

Where can one find the actual method used to come up with this number?

Is it the difference in tickets sold during €9 and prior to €9 * statistical distance travelled by a statistical German assuming that every surplus ticket sold was bought to substitute a car travel?

Subsequently, it would be great to have that number put in context right next to a graph showing gasoline and diesel sales in the same time period. Those were also cheaper for the same time period.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#33

Post by cgeier »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #31
hedora wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article, the study accounts for this. Do you have some evidence that it does not?

> According to the article, the study accounts for this. Can you please point out the part of the article supporting this claim?

> The Association of German Transport Companies (VDV), which carried out the research, said the number of people who switched from cars to public transport as a result of the €9 ticket was behind the saving in emissions.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#34

Post by desindol »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #13
insane_dreamer wrote: post #12

Why not make public transportation free as part of the government's investment in combatting climate change (and lots of other benefits)

Generally the barrier to using public transit is not price, but rather deficiencies in the network, so the best way to increase transit use is to invest money in expanding the network or improving frequency and consistency of transit. This is definitely the case in North America, but still likely the case in Germany despite Germany having a much more robust transit system.

This is only true if you can afford other options. There is a reason why the CDU wants refugees in the more rural areas. With no means of transportation they are stuck and out of the way of most if not all cities. This is obviously boring asf so crime rates go up which leads to anti refugee sentiment and plays into their agenda. This is a trend across most of Europe and free public transport would 100% ease the situation for the refugees and the people in the area.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#36

Post by desindol »

ipaddr wrote: post #27
asdajksah2123 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making public transportation free would reduce demand for oil/gas in cities and would lower prices people in rural areas would pay relative to it not being free. Of course, this assumes that public transportation is only available in cities, but that's not true at all. Many European countries have extremely effective rural public transportation.

Taxes raise in rural areas to pay for these systems.

The costs are negligible to every corp bailouts in the last 50 years or the cumex scandal. With the money corps extracted through illegal means with cumex we would have free transportation for the next 30 years.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#37

Post by mecsred »

atwood22 wrote: post #30
valenterry wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's pros and cons. On the con side: - When people get something for free, they often don't value it as much and treat it worse. E.g. more pollution. - public transportation being free also means that it will be used even in cases where it is both economically and ecologically a suboptimal solution. This is a problem because more usage means higher costs. E.g. someone now might take a bus instead of cycling. - Les…

> - public transportation being free also means that it will be used even in cases where it is both economically and ecologically a suboptimal solution. This is a problem because more usage means higher costs. E.g. someone now might take a bus instead of cycling. That’s really reaching. Presumably people would do the thing that bear fits their circumstances after weighing the costs and benefits.

So if the cost changed to zero, and the benefit stayed the same, would that not change the "best fit"?

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#38

Post by Schroedingersat »

ipaddr wrote: post #27
asdajksah2123 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making public transportation free would reduce demand for oil/gas in cities and would lower prices people in rural areas would pay relative to it not being free. Of course, this assumes that public transportation is only available in cities, but that's not true at all. Many European countries have extremely effective rural public transportation.

Taxes raise in rural areas to pay for these systems.

Roads are vastly more expensive than transit per trip. If having the busses and trains full avoids yet another widening then taxes go down, and the rural + urban areas stop subsidizing the suburbs.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#39

Post by Schroedingersat »

ellareen wrote: post #11
rurban wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know nobody who had to switch to their car to come to work in time. On the hand, most coworkers tried the bus in the morning, or switched to bycicles, with the occasional bus trip when it rained. It was a huge success, people flooded the trains.

I actually did borrow my parents car because the commute got so bad. I commute from Aachen to Cologne. After 2 trips there and back which would usually take me about 4 hours total, I had accumulated over 8 hours of total travel time and kinda had enough. Was very glad i was able to WFH.

As someone living in an area with abysmal intercity transit, the idea of being able to get out of my city in an hour or even two is wild.

Busses are often slower than a brisk walk.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#40

Post by homonculus1 »

desindol wrote: post #34
Tiktaalik wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally the barrier to using public transit is not price, but rather deficiencies in the network, so the best way to increase transit use is to invest money in expanding the network or improving frequency and consistency of transit. This is definitely the case in North America, but still likely the case in Germany despite Germany having a much more robust transit system.

This is only true if you can afford other options. There is a reason why the CDU wants refugees in the more rural areas. With no means of transportation they are stuck and out of the way of most if not all cities. This is obviously boring asf so crime rates go up which leads to anti refugee sentiment and plays into their agenda. This is a trend across most of Europe and free public transport would 100% ease the situa…

That is quite a theory...
Post reply on HN