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Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

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Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#31

Post by paxys »

outworlder wrote: post #11
jra101 wrote: post #5

This happens to me just using the adaptive cruise control, no Autopilot or FSD enabled and it's super annoying. Can happen on a completely empty road driving in a straight line.

That's... appalling. My 2019 Leaf has absolutely zero problems maintaining distance with adaptive cruise control, using the ancient technology formerly known as radar. It can somehow even see stationary vehicles, something I thought wasn't feasible.

Yeah, never had a problem with my Hyundai as well. It also does lane keep assist perfectly on the highway using just the front cameras.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#33

Post by lostlogin »

rideontime wrote: post #18
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Seems real easy to get rear-ended. Which, in this age of cheap ubiquitous dash-cams, isn't nearly as likely to be the "inconvenient waste of time but zero financial risk" deal it used to be Edit: Since apparently this needs explaining, insurers will consider evidence and happily doll out blame to a party that does something dumb in proportion to their fault (with slight variations per differences in law from state t…

To say nothing of the "inconvenience" to the driver who wasn't at fault but would have been assumed to be.

Surely rear ending a misbehaving Tesla is still the fault of the following car?

Or am I misunderstanding you?

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#34

Post by smt88 »

a-dub wrote: post #24
mberning wrote: post #17

Most of the “driver aids” available today have the competency of a drunk or highly inexperienced driver. Just maintaining lane is a problem for all the systems I have had the opportunity to try. They are easily flummoxed by worn or moved lane lines (like you would see in a construction area). I view it as a definite upgrade over traditional cruise control, but it’s so far away from self driving it’s laughable to even…

i recently rented a late model rav4 and described the experience of radar cruise (on an admittedly challenging road) to be "like having a drunk lead-footed teenager at the wheel." lots of overaggressive acceleration and deceleration, with all too frequent state changes. personally i'd rather just have regular cruise and something that will drive the car competently at low speeds in heavy congestion.

I currently drive a 2021 Rav4 Prime and it's not like that at all. The adaptive cruise control is smooth and never makes mistakes.

Lane assistance is helpful but not as close to flawless, mostly due to poorly marked lanes.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#35

Post by glitchc »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #19
robonerd wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You continue using this feature despite these errors occurring daily? The way you describe it makes autopilot seem like an inexperienced teenage driver; I think whatever marginal safety benefit you get from it might be erased by the life-shortening stress such erratic car behavior must induce.

Can't speak for OP, but I'm supposed to be paying attention at all times while autopilot is enabled; as soon as I feel the vehicle may phantom brake, I apply more pressure to the accelerator to maintain speed. I believe the NHTSA is going to require Tesla retrofit radar on all vehicles to mitigate their Tesla Vision functionality deficiency. (submitted lengthy dash cam videos and accelerometer data to the NHTSA as a…

You accelerate harder to compensate for a car that brakes too quickly? This is considered normal in Tesla-land?

Your fix reminds me of this: https://xkcd.com/1172/

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#36

Post by toomuchtodo »

colordrops wrote: post #29
toomuchtodo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for OP, but I'm supposed to be paying attention at all times while autopilot is enabled; as soon as I feel the vehicle may phantom brake, I apply more pressure to the accelerator to maintain speed. I believe the NHTSA is going to require Tesla retrofit radar on all vehicles to mitigate their Tesla Vision functionality deficiency. (submitted lengthy dash cam videos and accelerometer data to the NHTSA as a…

I have an early release Model 3 with radar. I suspect they stopped using the radar in a software update once they started releasing Model 3s without radar, as it didn't have this jerky stopping behavior before that.

Happens often on my Y, does not happen on my legacy S and X (circa 2018 and 2019) that are equipped with Continental radar front facing radar. I believe even current S and X vehicles are still getting radar installed, so Tesla is only being cheap on the 3 and Y to keep moving them at volume as a supply chain mitigation.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#37

Post by dotancohen »

colordrops wrote: post #3

This is probably happening a lot more than the number of reports mentioned in the article indicates. It happens to me every other day in my Model 3. It's also not binary - sometimes it slows down more quickly than other times, or stops too suddenly when a car is stopped in front of you. Seems real easy to get rear-ended. I've only got autopilot, not FSD. It's very conservative. It always considers someone to be in fr…

For what it's worth, I've tried and failed to reproduce this on my Model 3. I've driven next to trucks, motorcycles, under overpasses, under very-low overpasses, near pedestrians, and even passed camels and horses on the side of the road. No phantom braking.

That said, when using the lane-assist, I do prefer to keep my foot on the accelerator pedal anyway. To increase range, I try not to get into regen at all unless I actually do want to brake. I feel that the cruise control is to strict in keeping a particular speed in hilly areas, and I live and work in hilly areas. Let the vehicle speed up in the dips and slow down on the peaks, just like all the other cars (probably manually driven) are doing.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#38

Post by klyrs »

colordrops wrote: post #3

This is probably happening a lot more than the number of reports mentioned in the article indicates. It happens to me every other day in my Model 3. It's also not binary - sometimes it slows down more quickly than other times, or stops too suddenly when a car is stopped in front of you. Seems real easy to get rear-ended. I've only got autopilot, not FSD. It's very conservative. It always considers someone to be in fr…

I don't drive a Tesla, but my car is a newer model with "smart" cruise control. It freaks out whenever there's a slight curve in the road and there's a car in the next lane over. Do Teslas have the same issue?

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#39

Post by olyjohn »

standyro wrote: post #26
majormunky wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2019 Subaru Crosstrek has adaptive cruise control, and i've had it hit the brakes pretty hard when there's nothing in the way. Luckily it doesn't happen often.

Sadly, Subarus don't make headlines though. A Tesla does just about anything and it's local news and Facebook fodder. I don't get people texting me about typical ICE cars on fire after accidents ~ for some reason people think Tesla's are noteworthy in that regard? Like other cars don't have sketchy LKAS/cruise control systems or crash?

I think people should know that EVs come with the same risks as ICE cars. It's old news that ICE cars catch on fire. They've been around 100+ years in one form or another, why would we report on it? I mean there's a tank full of volatile fuel in the car.

EVs are new still. They're hyped and covered like crazy by the media in a lot of positive ways, so why should they not get equal press coverage when there is negative news? Once EVs hit a certain mass, they won't be novel anymore, and nobody will care.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#40

Post by toomuchtodo »

glitchc wrote: post #35
toomuchtodo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for OP, but I'm supposed to be paying attention at all times while autopilot is enabled; as soon as I feel the vehicle may phantom brake, I apply more pressure to the accelerator to maintain speed. I believe the NHTSA is going to require Tesla retrofit radar on all vehicles to mitigate their Tesla Vision functionality deficiency. (submitted lengthy dash cam videos and accelerometer data to the NHTSA as a…

You accelerate harder to compensate for a car that brakes too quickly? This is considered normal in Tesla-land? Your fix reminds me of this: https://xkcd.com/1172/

Tesla isn't going to take the vehicle back, nor would I sell the car to someone else, so I am left to complain loudly to regulators, which I admit is a guilty pleasure (especially when I have lucked into having standing).

I also opted out of arbitration for all of my vehicles [1], for obvious reasons. I am simply attempting to make lemonade from lemons.

[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/8vxnz0/psa_for...

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