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The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

arstechnica.com

31–40 of 201 posts

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#31
post #14
post #2

Designers, like Ive, should not be left unchecked. As part of an overall team they have value, but they should never be given carte-blanche as Ive had.

On the other hand, no one has released a VR system with mass market appeal. I have and enjoy a Valve Index, but it’s stayed in the box for more than a year because I can’t figure out a socially viable spot for it in my new house. Maybe Ive’s influence on this product will make a big difference.

>> On the other hand, no one has released a VR system with mass market appeal.

Quest 2 would like a word with you?

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#32
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, no one has released a VR system with mass market appeal. I have and enjoy a Valve Index, but it’s stayed in the box for more than a year because I can’t figure out a socially viable spot for it in my new house. Maybe Ive’s influence on this product will make a big difference.

VR seems to have an insurmountable motion sickness problem. I tried the Quest with a dozen friends and half of them felt sick enough within minutes to never try it again.

This might be especially true if they're prioritizing aesthetic concerns over performance: per OP, they axed the compute-heavy base station. Carmak talks about increasing frame rate and increasing depth calculation as mitigators against sickness. BTW I feel sick merely playing Quake 1 at arm's length from a small monitor.

https://www.techradar.com/news/oculus-might-have-a-fix-to-en...

https://www.lifewire.com/how-new-tech-could-prevent-vr-motio...

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#33
post #30

Productivity is correlated with display size, and VR should be the next step in productivity, because it allows your whole space to become a display and an interface. When paired with powerful hardware and innovative software it should be the next step in computing. Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos wi…

That sounds absolutely exhausting to me.

Perhaps, in a lab setting, doing straightforward, focused tasks like the ones they use in these productivity studies, I could sustain a productivity boost long enough for the researcher to get a two-tailed pMake me do it in real life, though, 40 hours a week, week after week after week, and I expect I would burn out very quickly. I like my work well enough, but I don't think I want to actually stick my whole head inside of it.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#34
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 64% of US adults wear eyeglasses. ??? I do too. What does this have to do with anything? The lens is irrelevant for something that projects right onto the retina (trivial to correct for). Hell, I'd love it for that reason alone, would be a huge improvement for my computer usage. > We're already basically at the limits of physics for making CPUs faster and heat dissipation is a huge issue even for products that you…

> For the same reason they were thinking about the "iPad" and then "iPhone" (tablet consideration actually came first internally even though in 2004 it was redirected toward the phone first) long, long before it "viable as a consumer product" duh. You don't get out ahead of things by waiting until after your competitors do it to get started, you make it happen early with your own R&D. But that's exactly what happened…

I can't tell if you're trying to be serious or are being sarcastic. Like, Apple started work on the Newton in the late 80s and released the first one in 1993 too. So what? Viable consumer product for these things involved innovations in tech like multitouch capacitance vs resistance displays, a critical tipping point of processor, battery, wireless and display tech, the right UX and stack behind it, etc. But Apple didn't get there in 6 months, they did it on the back of years and years of R&D ahead of time. Same with stuff like their own chips, the PA Semi acquisition was in 2008, and the first real fruit (actual custom Apple core) was the A6 in 2012. Bringing it all the way back to notebook form factors took until the M1 (where PA Semi actually was aiming at with the 7W PWRficient), 12 years later. I'm genuinely befuddled that the idea of "get started years early" is a radical proposition to some people on HN. You also don't get useful patents in a field (critical nowadays in tech) without being way out in front. Even if the vast majority of R&D ends up leading to dead ends it's still worth it when it's important enough and gets close enough.

Identifying the likely optimal display mechanism has been primarily a matter of physics and biology. Without implants, can't do better than photons directly onto retina which also easily deals with lens/focus issues. There's never been anything to indicate that's physically impossible either. So "just" a matter of lots of hard work, but Apple has the kind of profit and strategic outlook to justify that. They've done so repeatedly. And this is central to their core business and talents as well. That other lesser tech might be of use in niches that aren't of interest to Apple, or that earlier efforts can't hit the strict superset tipping point, misses the forest for the trees.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#35
post #30

Productivity is correlated with display size, and VR should be the next step in productivity, because it allows your whole space to become a display and an interface. When paired with powerful hardware and innovative software it should be the next step in computing. Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos wi…

That sounds absolutely exhausting to me. Perhaps, in a lab setting, doing straightforward, focused tasks like the ones they use in these productivity studies, I could sustain a productivity boost long enough for the researcher to get a two-tailed p Make me do it in real life, though, 40 hours a week, week after week after week, and I expect I would burn out very quickly. I like my work well enough, but I don't think…

Maybe not all the time, but it would be great for me to be able to travel and not have to worry about taking a huge productivity hit without my desk and monitors.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#36
post #30

Productivity is correlated with display size, and VR should be the next step in productivity, because it allows your whole space to become a display and an interface. When paired with powerful hardware and innovative software it should be the next step in computing. Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos wi…

[deleted]

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#37
post #30

Productivity is correlated with display size, and VR should be the next step in productivity, because it allows your whole space to become a display and an interface. When paired with powerful hardware and innovative software it should be the next step in computing. Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos wi…

Both Meta and Microsoft are exploring AR/VR in the workplace (Microsoft pretty much entirely). I’m not sure why you’re suggesting they’re not exploring this area.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#38
post #5

AR simply has no known value to users, the best SciFi has to offer is sex ads while walking down the street. AR is technically impossible with current and near future tech. All these companies are lying and faking and delaying to collect $ while people like HN are stupid enough to believe in them. Zuckerberg's latest video blanked out the "AR" glasses. Google also lied and used fake demos glasses in theirs. Magic Lea…

I work in medical surgical simulation and there are incredible uses for something like AR/VR for training and tele-mentoring. Not difficult to imagine countless others. The entertainment/gaming market is overrated - when it finally shows up, AR/VR will be all about work, productivity and interfacing. But I agree it's probably going to take a long time and I don't think it's going to be the hyped revolution everyone w…

If we can play scifi, it's trivial to imagine benefits to lightweight unobtrusive AR glasses. And, yes, targeted commercial uses are probably the low hanging fruit.

It's also probably quite a ways off for mainstream adoption because the hardware and software isn't there and won't be for a while unless you're talking narrow use cases where compromises are fine.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#39
post #5

AR simply has no known value to users, the best SciFi has to offer is sex ads while walking down the street. AR is technically impossible with current and near future tech. All these companies are lying and faking and delaying to collect $ while people like HN are stupid enough to believe in them. Zuckerberg's latest video blanked out the "AR" glasses. Google also lied and used fake demos glasses in theirs. Magic Lea…

> At best it might be useful at work Unless everyone can use it, its not going to work in an office setting. A single person in a team of six who gets motion sickness with VR (very common) makes it nonviable for the entire team.

Besides. I mostly don't want an immersive environment for meetings and so forth. Heck, lots of people resent video.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#40
post #4

The correct solution to the vr isolation problem is to have passthrough AR, then digitally remove the helmets of the other people in the same room. That way, as long as everyone is wearing a helmet, it looks like no one is wearing a helmet.

why shouldn't the other people be rendered as an avatar they choose like in VR chat?
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