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Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime

reuters.com

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Re: Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime

#31

Post by Gnob »

arinlen wrote: post #17
drtrq wrote: post #14

Quoted post unavailable.

> Disrespect these immigrants. Burn their holy book, call them terrorises when they demonstrate legally. Then talk about “integration failure”. Can you please provide your best example of how any immigrant was "disrespected"? Keep in mind you're talking about a nation which welcomed them with open arms when they needed the most, and was extremely generous with it's support. > Burn their holy book, call them terrorise…

>Keep in mind you're talking about a nation which welcomed them with open arms when they needed the most, and was extremely generous with it's support.

Not generous when you exchange food and safety for forcing your principles onto people by insulting their own ideology because you disagree, quite the opposite, it's a very filthy action, not even "extremists" or "fundamentalists" would do that, but as you so preach liberalism, you won't see that.

it's clearly stated and known for each Muslim that one shouldn't force people into Islam ( nobody really can force anyone into Islam unless the person is born muslim I think and even that part was a bit controversial idr honestly ), or provoke people and insult them so they won't pull these sorts of action like depicting God or the prophet, and I think these people who try to follow their religion to their best would be considered by yourself and your people as "fundamentalists" or something I guess.

>Sweden is a liberal democracy, where freedom of speech is one of its founding principles. Mishandling a religious book does not justify aimless riots, specially if what you're directing your protests at the society which welcomed you.

They burned it in the one holy month of the muslims, in the areas where muslims aggregate.

it wasn't mishandling, it was permitted by the city hall, they gave him the permit and the police protection.

I am against the riots but I think they should have burned the flag and the constitution where the far right people aggregate and let them start the violence.

the aimless riots were definitely wrong if it was like that but no media seemed to actually report the exact details of how things got escalated.

Re: Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime

#32

Post by Gnob »

anamax wrote: post #20
adamrezich wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't pay very much attention to goings-on in Sweden but just to make sure we have our causality straight here: how far into their mass migration did these book-burnings begin, and how was integration doing before that? (seeing as how you're blaming book-burning—which, without examining things further, I assume to be a political stunt distastefully attempting to make a point/draw attention to the issue—for the inte…

It's not okay to disrespect some religions but it is acceptable, praiseworthy even, to disrespect others. That will end well.

>That will end well.

I don't think people care when you start disrespecting their religion. I would love to hear any scientific / fruitful / reasonable discussions about why my religion is invalid if you got any, but mere mockery? I am sure that will end well.

Re: Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime

#33

Post by Gnob »

peepop6 wrote: post #6

This was obvious from the start just looking at their refugee numbers and the fact that they didn't have enough experience with immigration. This whole thing is a bit of a mindfuck for me because I can't find any logical reason for what Sweden has done. I think the government has actually acted out of pure humanity and accepted so many refugees without thinking through any of it and now they're paying the price. Comp…

>This whole thing is a bit of a mindfuck for me because I can't find any logical reason for what Sweden has done. I think the government has actually acted out of pure humanity and accepted so many refugees without thinking through any of it and now they're paying the price.

I hope you don't think they're that stupid. nobody is, they did it and they keep doing it to make more "liberal Muslims", who are just like most Christians today, atheists who don't care really about anything related to the religion itself, they just keep repeating their prayers because they find peace in it, not because they care about God or his commandments or going to heaven.

Re: Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime

#34

Post by joeman1000 »

Gnob wrote: post #28

[flagged]

How exactly could Sweden or any other country destroy Islam by having a minute fraction of its population migrate there? What percentage of Islamic people in the world are actively being ‘oppressed’ in countries they voluntarily fled to? The key word here is voluntarily.

What you’re seeing, the watering-down of Islam, also happens to Christianity and all other religions in Western countries. It’s what happens when there’s a bazaar, rather than a monoculture. Your sentiment is correct, if not slightly unhinged. But there is nobody out to get you, no more than everybody is out to get everybody else. It’s not all a big plot.

In my opinion, refugee intake in Sweden has been more about Swedish white guilt (for whatever reason) and thus self-destruction.

Re: Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime

#35

Post by AvocadoPanic »

Gnob wrote: post #30
AvocadoPanic wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching others burn books you hold sacred is one of the costs of admission to western civilization. Certainly the French have had to watch whole churches burn. If you're unable to be civilized there are plenty of places where this sort of response is acceptable. Perhaps a draw the prophet contest next.

>If you're unable to be civilized there are plenty of places where this sort of response is acceptable. I think you are misunderstanding what being civilized means. being civilized or not has literally nothing to have with secularism or religion, you trying to make it equal to atheism is just gaslighting. and people are going to get out, nobody is fancying your nazi crap under "Freedom of speech". people have been ge…

I made no religious requirements for civilization only behavioral.

You can't riot when you perceive insults to you religion or ethnicity and be civilized in the west. It's not tolerated behavior. This is how we manage our multipolar societies with a variety of stakeholders.

This is a feature, just because you don't see or understand the purpose does not mean it serves no purpose.

With out this we could go back to killing catholics for their instance on synergism and semipelagianism instead of sola fide.

Re: Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime

#36

Post by Gnob »

AvocadoPanic wrote: post #35
Gnob wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you're unable to be civilized there are plenty of places where this sort of response is acceptable. I think you are misunderstanding what being civilized means. being civilized or not has literally nothing to have with secularism or religion, you trying to make it equal to atheism is just gaslighting. and people are going to get out, nobody is fancying your nazi crap under "Freedom of speech". people have been ge…

I made no religious requirements for civilization only behavioral. You can't riot when you perceive insults to you religion or ethnicity and be civilized in the west. It's not tolerated behavior. This is how we manage our multipolar societies with a variety of stakeholders. This is a feature, just because you don't see or understand the purpose does not mean it serves no purpose. With out this we could go back to kil…

>You can't riot when you perceive insults to you religion or ethnicity and be civilized in the west. It's not tolerated behavior. This is how we manage our multipolar societies with a variety of stakeholders.

I am not pro riots if they've been out of the blue like that. but I don't think any news media have mentioned the details of the escalation and I am not buying into any story the Swedish media / police / government pushes.

>This is a feature, just because you don't see or understand the purpose does not mean it serves no purpose.

I am aware a civil society doesn't work like that, but I would assume the police started the aggressive actions, in such a case I think it's justified.

because that's what people do in a civil society when the police and the government stands against them.

The same way you can get fined or taken to jail if you mock national symbols of some countries like France for example. the only difference is that the first is done by people and the second is done by the legal system, which is also people, but their actions are absolutely morally justified as being 'lawful'.

I don't condone riots unless they're systematic, don't harm innocents, and are merely done to cost the government for their actions and are a sign of protesting.

That's my personal stand on the subject and I think it's pretty much Islamic as people aren't encouraged to be chaotic or savages in Islam.

If you do wonder: How can we manage these savages? just let them alone in peace, stay respectful ( not even to them just to their religion ) and if you have any reasonable question and by any I mean literally "any" just ask it, nobody is going to attack you or hurt you by any means, quite the opposite, if you are attacked they might come and help to stop it. What's the secret sauce? you just understand that a holy book is called a holy book for a reason, and the same way you are ready to die for your values, people and nation they are ready to die for their religion.

find that so hard to do, vote to pass a bill for their mass deportation and done. or sign a petition and show them that the majority refuse them staying in the country and I think people will gladly leave, if they don't, back to the first solution.

then you can do whatever you like in your own country but please don't export your culture by any means, talk about mutual respect or human rights or draw fancy images of the west to these people, respect that end of the deal pretty well, and done. no more savages causing you any troubles.

Re: Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime

#37

Post by dragonwriter »

AvocadoPanic wrote: post #35
Gnob wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you're unable to be civilized there are plenty of places where this sort of response is acceptable. I think you are misunderstanding what being civilized means. being civilized or not has literally nothing to have with secularism or religion, you trying to make it equal to atheism is just gaslighting. and people are going to get out, nobody is fancying your nazi crap under "Freedom of speech". people have been ge…

I made no religious requirements for civilization only behavioral. You can't riot when you perceive insults to you religion or ethnicity and be civilized in the west. It's not tolerated behavior. This is how we manage our multipolar societies with a variety of stakeholders. This is a feature, just because you don't see or understand the purpose does not mean it serves no purpose. With out this we could go back to kil…

> You can't riot when you perceive insults to you religion or ethnicity and be civilized in the west

That...isn't consistent with observed behavior of even the historically dominant religious and ethnic groups in the US, so I guess the US is either non-Western or non-civilized.

> With out this we could go back to killing catholics for their instance on synergism and semipelagianism instead of sola fide.

Many Catholics are very much aware that the disproportionately political powerful evangelical theocrats in the US are aching to do this once they are done playing nice with gullible conservative Catholics to suppress the left, and that it wasn't that long ago that the same faction in the US spent the same energy attacking the Catholic Church as the literal tool of Satan that they now spend on the culture war topic of the day.

Re: Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime

#38

Post by AvocadoPanic »

Gnob wrote: post #36
AvocadoPanic wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made no religious requirements for civilization only behavioral. You can't riot when you perceive insults to you religion or ethnicity and be civilized in the west. It's not tolerated behavior. This is how we manage our multipolar societies with a variety of stakeholders. This is a feature, just because you don't see or understand the purpose does not mean it serves no purpose. With out this we could go back to kil…

>You can't riot when you perceive insults to you religion or ethnicity and be civilized in the west. It's not tolerated behavior. This is how we manage our multipolar societies with a variety of stakeholders. I am not pro riots if they've been out of the blue like that. but I don't think any news media have mentioned the details of the escalation and I am not buying into any story the Swedish media / police / governm…

Happy to hear you consider mass deportation a solution.

No, there is no moral justification in modern western civilization for religious or sectarian violence. We are nations of laws, the moral path is to work in the system to change the law if you feel it's unjust. Again, this is cost of admission to western civilization.

Re: Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime

#39

Post by AvocadoPanic »

dragonwriter wrote: post #37
AvocadoPanic wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made no religious requirements for civilization only behavioral. You can't riot when you perceive insults to you religion or ethnicity and be civilized in the west. It's not tolerated behavior. This is how we manage our multipolar societies with a variety of stakeholders. This is a feature, just because you don't see or understand the purpose does not mean it serves no purpose. With out this we could go back to kil…

> You can't riot when you perceive insults to you religion or ethnicity and be civilized in the west That...isn't consistent with observed behavior of even the historically dominant religious and ethnic groups in the US, so I guess the US is either non-Western or non-civilized. > With out this we could go back to killing catholics for their instance on synergism and semipelagianism instead of sola fide. Many Catholic…

Do you have examples of religious or sectarian riots by historically dominant religious groups in the US in the last 50 years?

Also I don't mean to single out catholics, anabaptists and adult baptism may be a better example.

This is why in the modern west there can be no space for this behavior. It's arbitrary and in the eye of the beholder. Even in the US anabaptists have continued to schism, but we don't allow violence against sects that allow buttons on their clothing however prideful or idolatrous they maybe.

Re: Swedish PM says integration of immigrants has failed, fueled gang crime

#40

Post by anamax »

Gnob wrote: post #32
anamax wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not okay to disrespect some religions but it is acceptable, praiseworthy even, to disrespect others. That will end well.

>That will end well. I don't think people care when you start disrespecting their religion. I would love to hear any scientific / fruitful / reasonable discussions about why my religion is invalid if you got any, but mere mockery? I am sure that will end well.

> I don't think people care when you start disrespecting their religion.

That depends on the people, or is it the religion?

> I would love to hear any scientific / fruitful / reasonable discussions about why my religion is invalid if you got any

Not relevant to my point.

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