Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

France ends gas heaters subsidies

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 112 posts

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#31

Post by masklinn »

369548684892826 wrote: post #9
nevermindiguess wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure it’s fine with your developer salary. Go tell the old lady with a meager pension or the family with three kids.

Developer salary in France is probably lower than a French pension.

It really is not. The minimum pension in france is 916,78 euros as of 2022.

The minimum wages are 1269 after taxes. And while developer income is far from what it is in “hot” locations (berlin, london) to say nothing of the US, it’s generally way over min wages, by integer multiples.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#32

Post by hkt »

edelans wrote: post #24
heyyeah wrote: post #7

I'm working on a project for France to rollout virtual power plant flexibility with domestic electric heating. We get pressure to rapidly increase the rollout now. Let me know if you want to join us!

I'm curious : what is virtual power plant flexibility ?

Virtual power plants are smart batteries in homes which in aggregate behave as a power plant, taking energy when it isn't in demand and supplying it when it is. It is a very strong contender for replacing gas power plants for peak load situations.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#33

Post by DoingIsLearning »

ForgotIdAgain wrote: post #22

Russia has food and energy, sure QoL will be greatly reduced but it will go through, what will happen in developed country if it can't get gas to produce fertilizer? At least America will get to sell gas and food to europe I guess.

This is fearmongering.

How much of Europe's natural gas consumption is used as fertilizer feedstock?

Europe has plenty of alternative gas sources from Algeria to Norway, all the way to LNG. The only benefit of Russia was geographic proximity to the baltic and central europe countries and their price point.

The main reason Russia's gas made sense in Europe was the transition of Coal Plants to NG plants (which is itself a mistake in my view). With enough infrastructure investment, and now with the political will behind it, Central Europe and the Baltics can transition to electric heating alternatives and cut-off most domestic gas dependencies.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#34

Post by jrimbault »

369548684892826 wrote: post #9
nevermindiguess wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure it’s fine with your developer salary. Go tell the old lady with a meager pension or the family with three kids.

Developer salary in France is probably lower than a French pension.

FYI : wrong, so you can remove that "probably" from your mind.

In France, developers are amongst the most well off salaried people. A junior developper would already be well above the median income and amongst the top 30% earners.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#35

Post by leoedin »

egao1980 wrote: post #26
rosndo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old lady with a meager pension can still wear more clothes and ensure that her home is properly insulated. Same goes for the family with three kids. Indoor temperatures going down by a degree or two really is not a big deal.

Unfortunately lower indoor temperature leads to excess mortality as stated in UK report - https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/excesswintermortalityinengla...

There's literally no mention of indoor temperature in that report. All it says is that more people die in winter than summer - that could be due to all sorts of reasons. We know that viruses spread more in winter because people are indoors - that appears to be the main cause of excess winter death.

It's good practice to use sources which back up your claim, rather than just vaguely talk about the same topic.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#36

Post by rosndo »

egao1980 wrote: post #26
rosndo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old lady with a meager pension can still wear more clothes and ensure that her home is properly insulated. Same goes for the family with three kids. Indoor temperatures going down by a degree or two really is not a big deal.

Unfortunately lower indoor temperature leads to excess mortality as stated in UK report - https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/excesswintermortalityinengla...

I don’t see indoor temperatures discussed anywhere in this report, but yeah, excess mortality during the winter is to be expected.

Some people suffering from debilitating conditions may freeze to death in their homes, but those people weren’t capable of safely living by themselves in the first place.

I’ve lived through the winter in an old building that would barely heat above 17C, it wasn’t great, but I certainly wasn’t freezing all day long.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#37

Post by yetanother-1 »

heyyeah wrote: post #29
johnchristopher wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shot in the dark but... Erwan ?

https://tiko.fr (FR) https://tiko.energy/ (EN) we have our own branded product and we also white label with energy companies

I just installed it in my apartment in France, wonderful system.

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#38

Post by VaxWithSex »

hkt wrote: post #32
edelans wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious : what is virtual power plant flexibility ?

Virtual power plants are smart batteries in homes which in aggregate behave as a power plant, taking energy when it isn't in demand and supplying it when it is. It is a very strong contender for replacing gas power plants for peak load situations.

They can be more than that: https://www.emsysvpp.com/products/virtual_power_plant/techno...

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#39

Post by germinalphrase »

heyyeah wrote: post #7

I'm working on a project for France to rollout virtual power plant flexibility with domestic electric heating. We get pressure to rapidly increase the rollout now. Let me know if you want to join us!

Are you strictly EU based or do you have a presence in the USA?

Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies

#40

Post by bkor »

rosndo wrote: post #17
nevermindiguess wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure it’s fine with your developer salary. Go tell the old lady with a meager pension or the family with three kids.

Old lady with a meager pension can still wear more clothes and ensure that her home is properly insulated. Same goes for the family with three kids. Indoor temperatures going down by a degree or two really is not a big deal.

> and ensure that her home is properly insulated.

Netherlands is planning to get rid off gas for a while. I've attended a presentation by the city. They planned to spend 12.500 EUR per house to switch to an local heating plan. Basically a source of hot water will enter the home. This pipe is way bigger than a gas pipe, this is why 12.500 EUR is needed per home.

They mentioned that likely you'll pay the same for heating as before.

I find it bonkers. With 12.500, why not insulate and maybe prepare it for a air/water heat pump. The radiators on really old homes will need to be replaced with ones that work with a low temperature. Walls need to be insulated, windows and window frames likely need replacing. Still, it's way better to be more energy efficient than to spend 12.500 EUR per house (of which 11.500 will be "subsidized") than asking people to change things without actually improving their homes.

The problem doesn't seem to be the money. The problem is that idiotic solutions are suggested. Plus that whatever is subsidized goes up in price. E.g. a air/water heat pump costs way too much.

Post reply on HN