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Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

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Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#31

Post by Analemma_ »

earspider wrote: post #15
jl6 wrote: post #10

In previous centuries, there were plenty of jobs with low trust requirements - chiefly, unskilled manual labor. A criminal record wasn’t such a barrier to that type of employment. Someone could spend time in prison, and then still find work on the outside. Not great work perhaps, but a living - a way forward for them, to re-integrate back into society. A way to slowly rebuild trust. The shift away from unskilled manu…

This misses the point. There's an obvious solution: disallow employers (except in outlier cases where there are safety concerns) from using criminal background checks in hiring decisions.

This is not a new idea, it goes by the name "Ban the Box" ("the box" here meaning the "I have been convicted of a felony" checkbox on a job application) and has been implemented in a bunch of US states. The general consensus is that it doesn't really move the needle on employment rates for felons, while at the same time making employment prospects worse for black men because employers now just discard them from the application pipeline entirely since they can't check criminal records.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#32

Post by jimmygrapes »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #29
jl6 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s only a solution if you think there aren’t any genuine trust issues in hiring people with criminal records.

That points to a major issue of the criminal justice system. You should be clear after your sentence and have repaid your debt to society. If society wants to send people to correctional facilities for life for things like theft or drug charges, then it should be honest and do that.

If you are imprisoned for embezzlement, do your time, get your name cleared, then do it all again, and again, do you want to hire them as your purchasing agent? I think the answer here is going to have to be on a case by case basis. I'd maybe hire someone for that position if their repeat offense was unrelated and unlikely to impact the position directly (such as, I don't know, 2nd degree murder from DUIs). I'd be wary if they came to work drunk, but that's a separate issue that I'd be concerned about for anybody.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#33

Post by [deleted] »

earspider wrote: post #17
slt2021 wrote: post #3

They need to study deeper, why these young men engage in criminal activities in the first place, only to find themselves arrested and later ineligible for any job. Do they think that benefits from criminal activities outweigh the risks of being caught and not being able to pass any background check for entire life? First step if to stop young men from engaging in criminal behavior, to stop feeding jails with fresh bl…

You can’t just ask businesses to stop doing background checks and employ convicted felons and hope they will not embezzle funds from their new employer. The risk is too high. You can, actually. Businesses exist at the pleasure of the state and the state can fix these problems. Unfortunately, we've been run by right-wing enablers and crooks (in the sense of unethical rule-breakers, not people with criminal records) fo…

[deleted]

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#34

Post by jimmygrapes »

Animats wrote: post #18

"By age 35, 64% of unemployed men have been arrested and 46% have been convicted of a crime, with the rates varying only slightly by race and ethnicity." Well, executing criminals for minor offenses seems to be out of fashion.[1] Transportation to Australia or Siberia is no longer an option. There's no frontier to ship them off to. And the US military doesn't want criminals; each soldier today has too much firepower.…

It's idealistic but hear me out. Think of all the minor things in your neighborhood or town/village/city/parish/etc. that need to be fixed. Potholes, poor road markings, overgrown or unmaintained greenery. Uneven sidewalks. Litter, grime.

Think of the local government or contracted services that are understaffed. New construction and renovation. Forest management, wetlands management, park maintenance. Homeless shelters and soup kitchens and community centers. Crossing guards and bus drivers.

Many of these are run by organizations that restrict felons, or perversely use convicts nearly exclusively via prison release programs and monitored community service.

Why not open these up more?

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#35

Post by mulmen »

jimmygrapes wrote: post #34
Animats wrote: post #18

"By age 35, 64% of unemployed men have been arrested and 46% have been convicted of a crime, with the rates varying only slightly by race and ethnicity." Well, executing criminals for minor offenses seems to be out of fashion.[1] Transportation to Australia or Siberia is no longer an option. There's no frontier to ship them off to. And the US military doesn't want criminals; each soldier today has too much firepower.…

It's idealistic but hear me out. Think of all the minor things in your neighborhood or town/village/city/parish/etc. that need to be fixed. Potholes, poor road markings, overgrown or unmaintained greenery. Uneven sidewalks. Litter, grime. Think of the local government or contracted services that are understaffed. New construction and renovation. Forest management, wetlands management, park maintenance. Homeless shelt…

A lot of what you listed there are actually highly skilled careers.

So, why not hire recently released felons at your business? If they really do have something to offer it should be an untapped market for talent.

For the record I actually think this is a good idea.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#36

Post by Zak »

chrisseaton wrote: post #25
tyingq wrote: post #7

At least in the US one thing that has made this worse is universal cheap access to criminal background checks. That didn't used to exist, so a criminal background blocked access to jobs with big companies that could do background checks. But, you could get a job at smaller companies. That's gone now...a criminal background gets a "no" from almost everyone. Other countries have a system where some government agency pr…

What's the alternative to public conviction information? Secret trials?

Some countries have a concept of a right to be forgotten. After a certain amount of time passes, information about criminal convictions is no longer public; disseminating such information is generally illegal; making employment decisions based on it is also illegal.

It's not airtight, but it wouldn't need to be to alleviate the problem. It would restrict what mainstream background check providers could offer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#37

Post by brnaftr361 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #23
earspider wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the point. There's an obvious solution: disallow employers (except in outlier cases where there are safety concerns) from using criminal background checks in hiring decisions.

I think you've missed the point. Employers have a valid reason to want to disallow those with criminal backgrounds from a large swath of jobs. This is an area where I think regulation would be helpful/necessary, in that when doing a background check that the employer needs to enter business and job scope, and then the law would define which types of criminal background would be relevant and potentially disqualifying…

Dude I got dinged for a weed possession charge from my 17th year when I was 21 for a job at Kum'N'Go. I don't give a fuck what kinda logical hoops they jumped through, but it's obscene considering about a month after that I was working in a critical industry with literally millions of dollars of equipment in my hands and a high-risk environment. It doesn't make sense in so many cases, probably most and it only increases recidivism.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#38

Post by deeg »

jl6 wrote: post #10

In previous centuries, there were plenty of jobs with low trust requirements - chiefly, unskilled manual labor. A criminal record wasn’t such a barrier to that type of employment. Someone could spend time in prison, and then still find work on the outside. Not great work perhaps, but a living - a way forward for them, to re-integrate back into society. A way to slowly rebuild trust. The shift away from unskilled manu…

I wonder if the growing number of WFH jobs would help alleviate this. I'm a software engineer who mostly works from home. We sell (mostly) support for OSS. This seems like a situation where an ex-con might have an opportunity.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#39

Post by tomjakubowski »

jimmygrapes wrote: post #34
Animats wrote: post #18

"By age 35, 64% of unemployed men have been arrested and 46% have been convicted of a crime, with the rates varying only slightly by race and ethnicity." Well, executing criminals for minor offenses seems to be out of fashion.[1] Transportation to Australia or Siberia is no longer an option. There's no frontier to ship them off to. And the US military doesn't want criminals; each soldier today has too much firepower.…

It's idealistic but hear me out. Think of all the minor things in your neighborhood or town/village/city/parish/etc. that need to be fixed. Potholes, poor road markings, overgrown or unmaintained greenery. Uneven sidewalks. Litter, grime. Think of the local government or contracted services that are understaffed. New construction and renovation. Forest management, wetlands management, park maintenance. Homeless shelt…

Chrysalis and the Downtown LA BID run a local maintenance program just as you describe, serving all kinds of disadvantaged folks, including the formerly incarcerated, helping them transition into full time employment.

https://downtownla.com/the-dcbid/safe-and-clean/clean-team

https://www.changelives.org/

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#40

Post by mulmen »

brnaftr361 wrote: post #37
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've missed the point. Employers have a valid reason to want to disallow those with criminal backgrounds from a large swath of jobs. This is an area where I think regulation would be helpful/necessary, in that when doing a background check that the employer needs to enter business and job scope, and then the law would define which types of criminal background would be relevant and potentially disqualifying…

Dude I got dinged for a weed possession charge from my 17th year when I was 21 for a job at Kum'N'Go. I don't give a fuck what kinda logical hoops they jumped through, but it's obscene considering about a month after that I was working in a critical industry with literally millions of dollars of equipment in my hands and a high-risk environment. It doesn't make sense in so many cases, probably most and it only increa…

Ok but if I run a bank I don't want to hire Bernie Madoff, no matter how much time he served. So having the government tell me I can discriminate based on conviction for financial crimes but not drug possession more than 5 years ago seems reasonable. At least to improve the status quo.
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