Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 239 posts

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#31

Post by cain »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #19
FundementalBrit wrote: post #3

Oh boy well this is another nail in the coffin for free speech in the UK. Back in my day it was just a given people said mean things on the internet.

>Back in my day it was just a given people said mean things on the internet. Isn't this indicative of a serious problem though? If there were places IRL where the average person is subjected to a constant barrage of callousness it wouldn't continue to exist, would it? Can we have free speech without accountability? In the past accountability seemed like a major factor.

> If there were places IRL where the average person is subjected to a constant barrage of callousness it wouldn't continue to exist, would it?

Is this not why the real issue is related to social media itself, rather than generalised "trolling"? This isn't as much of an issue in niche forums or niche-dedicated social sites.

We are free to make our accounts private, block/sign out/delete/not partake in social media, yet many feel like they are __unable__ to make use of these features. IRL, you can't always easily escape bullying. Online, you can choose not to engage; yet people continue to place themselves in the line of fire. I think this speaks to a much deeper issue (as you point out) and I'm not sure jailing trolls is the answer.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#32

Post by klyrs »

FundementalBrit wrote: post #3

Oh boy well this is another nail in the coffin for free speech in the UK. Back in my day it was just a given people said mean things on the internet.

Back in my day it was a given that nerds would get their asses kicked by jocks. While I'm not in favor of this bill, your argument is extremely flimsy.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#34

Post by Clubber »

md8z wrote: post #24
Clubber wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>for us to collectively come up with an objective definition That's not how the game works, we don't collectively do anything, the powerful come up with the definition. Just wait for a powerful person to take criticism and be able to jail the person because of "psychological harm."

I don't understand, these decisions appear to be made by people appointed by democratically elected MPs? Are you making a different complaint about the democratic process? That's fine for you to do, but that seems to be unrelated to the topic.

So in the US, you get to choose from a group of politicians. All those politicians need money to run their campaigns. Those politicians get money from corporate interests to fund their campaigns. Therefore, nearly all politicians you are able to choose from have already been tainted by corporate money. Corporate interests don't just cut big checks and expect nothing in return.

Point being, this is a law that helps the powerful imprison people who criticize them disguised as a way to stop people from hurting other people's feelings. It won't be the sole purpose, I'm sure regular people can get people imprisoned who criticize them as well, but once the law is there, powerful people will use it to stifle criticism.

Is this really a good idea?

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#36

Post by gadders »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #6

subjectivity is loved by the powerful rule of subjectivity is, at the end of the day, rule of the powerful: when two parties disagree and the situation can be defined in primarily subjective terms, the most powerful party wins by hiding behind outcast, oppressed or unpopular groups with often legitimate (though perhaps subjective, to an extent) grievances, the powerful are able to push through the subjective zeitgeis…

You already have subjective offences in the UK:

The CPS uses definitions agreed with the National Police Chiefs' Council to identify racist or religious incidents/crimes and to monitor the decisions and outcomes:

"Any incident/crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race"

or

"Any incident/crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice based on a person's religion or perceived religion."

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/racist-and-religious-h...

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#37

Post by md8z »

Clubber wrote: post #34
md8z wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand, these decisions appear to be made by people appointed by democratically elected MPs? Are you making a different complaint about the democratic process? That's fine for you to do, but that seems to be unrelated to the topic.

So in the US, you get to choose from a group of politicians. All those politicians need money to run their campaigns. Those politicians get money from corporate interests to fund their campaigns. Therefore, nearly all politicians you are able to choose from have already been tainted by corporate money. Corporate interests don't just cut big checks and expect nothing in return. Point being, this is a law that helps th…

I really don't see how that's relevant here, if you really want to take that angle, then every law can be abused by corrupt officials. I agree with your complaint about that, corruption in politics is sadly nothing new. But that is a different problem to address, can we please discuss policy and not derail the discussion with cynicism about politicians? It's not interesting conversation and I feel like this is just shutting the discussion down.

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#38

Post by drost »

mandmandam wrote: post #28
Subsentient wrote: post #26

And this is why I'm never going to move to Europe. My jokes would be considered "obscene" or "indecent" or something and I'd be thrown in prison. At least here in the States, for now, the government is letting the private companies perform the censorship, and not imprisoning people for tasteless humor.

Who is getting thrown in to prison for jokes? Assange was thrown into jail for basic journalism, but that was at America's behest.

> Meechan was arrested on suspicion of breaching the Communications Act 2003.[20] On 19 March 2018, Meechan was convicted of breaching the act by Sheriff Derek O'Carroll at Airdrie Sheriff Court.[21] The court ruled that Meechan's claim that the video was a joke intended for his girlfriend "lacked credibility" as Meechan's girlfriend did not subscribe to the YouTube channel to which the video was posted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Meechan

Re: Trolls will be jailed for ‘psychological harm’

#40

Post by furgooswft13 »

md8z wrote: post #27
nathias wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this is trolling.

I'm not trolling, I've personally suffered psychological harm from online abuse. There are many places on the internet that I'd like to go but can't because people are too abusive and nobody does anything about it. What am I supposed to do if people don't even want to talk about this or acknowledge that it's a real problem that we can solve?

Definitely trolling
Post reply on HN