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Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

nytimes.com

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Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#31

Post by zozbot234 »

fires10 wrote: post #18
wizwit999 wrote: post #9

One of the most disgusting parts of western culture is how they relegate their old to these nursing homes.

A lot of this has to do with a lack of resources. There isn't enough labor available at home to take of the elderly most of the time and the ones in a home typically require extensive care. My father and mother in law both went to a nursing home because they couldn't perform basic daily activities.

The article points out that many nursing homes are just as understaffed though, that's why this practice is so widespread in the first place. If our elderly are going to be badly cared for either way, it might be best to keep them in a family environment where at least they won't be kept constantly on drugs.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#32

Post by BingoAhoy »

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can be taken away so dubiously even when not charged of a crime nor arrested in a system that exists outside the criminal system. I'm surprised and not surprised similar behavior happens in nursing homes.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#33

Post by PragmaticPulp »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #14
quetzlbazaar wrote: post #7

Antipsychotics have horrific side effects but are useful in institutional settings to make residents/patients/inmates easier to manage - psychiatry is the tool used to legitimize drugging people without need for their consent in such settings, for the benefit of others and the institution. It makes me despondent to read an article like this as I believe there are too many perverse incentives and cultural taboos for t…

Not all antipsychotics have horrible side effects. Let’s not lose nuance in response to the terrible unethical behavior depicted here. Modern antipsychotics often do good in helping people function when they wouldn’t otherwise be able to. The illnesses they treat are ones of terror and loneliness. I will note however that there’s no purpose in them here except to force submission, and that’s abuse and spits on the go…

> The illnesses they treat are ones of terror and loneliness. I will note however that there’s no purpose in them here except to force submission, and that’s abuse and spits on the good that can be done.

Modern antipsychotics are useful for conditions beyond schizophrenia. Seroquel is commonly prescribed for insomnia at doses lower than those used for Schizophrenia. Adding Abilify is a common second-line strategy when first-line antidepressants aren't giving proper results. Certain patients with bipolar disorder benefit from antipsychotic medications, particularly in the therapeutic delay before traditional mood stabilizers can kick in.

Like you said, the drugs themselves shouldn't be demonized. They're not perfect, but when used appropriately they're often far better than the underlying conditions being treated.

However, if doctors are simply making up diagnoses in order to prescribe the drugs, that's obviously not appropriate treatment.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#34

Post by [deleted] »

rhizome wrote: post #10
thatguy0900 wrote: post #3

I work in developmental disabilities, the situation there is much the same. A lot of the time their lives just suck and the consequences of that is "solved" by giving them behavior controling medication because giving them good fulfilling lives is hard and expensive. I don't see any reason it would be different for nursing homes.

You could say the same about my use of an antidepressant.

[deleted]

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#35

Post by tyoma »

garmaine wrote: post #16
CincinnatiMan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do other cultures do for people who can no longer take care of themselves?

Live in multi-generational family units where the family shares responsibility for (and benefits from) their own elders.

This is typically true for the elderly who can take care of themselves or require minimal help.

Once you need round the clock dementia care, it is more than extended family can provide — unless one or more adults take themselves out of the workforce for years.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#36

Post by MattGaiser »

wizwit999 wrote: post #9

One of the most disgusting parts of western culture is how they relegate their old to these nursing homes.

The trade off is that then the old drag down the kids in terms of careers, where they can live, time that might be otherwise invested in children, etc.

One side of my family is Chinese/Jamaican and the other White, so both cultural sets of values exist in my family and both sets of grandparents are worried about being a burden later on and while the polite thing to say is that they aren't, they genuinely are, especially if you don't have a lot of kids or they don't live nearby.

My Chinese/Jamaican grandfather had to leave his mother behind in Jamaica to build a life here in Canada and she supported that decision as it meant breaking the cycle of poverty for good. None of her descendants (at least for a while) would own nothing but two old dining chairs.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#37

Post by nradov »

quetzlbazaar wrote: post #17
heavyset_go wrote: post #2

Antipsychotics are not something to be handed out like candy. They have serious, sometimes permanent and sometimes fatal, side effects in anyone of any age. The article notes how that class of medication increases mortality in elderly people in particular. The fact that some people were prescribed haloperidol as the first line of treatment instead of a newer, safer antipsychotics also blows my mind. I'm terrified of…

The solution in my opinion to this problem is to permit euthanasia and for assisted suicide to become culturally accepted as an alternative to a drawn out death of dementia in a care home. The quality of life for many (not all) care home residents who are on these sorts of drug regimens is dire and in reality not entirely for their benefit, as is apparent to everyone including those responsible for oversight like Med…

Jurisdictions that allow euthanasia or assisted suicide usually require that the patient be of sound mind as confirmed by a physician. But many nursing home patients are suffering from a significant level of cognitive decline and thus no longer meet the criteria. It's kind of a Catch-22.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#39

Post by MattGaiser »

CincinnatiMan wrote: post #13
wizwit999 wrote: post #9

One of the most disgusting parts of western culture is how they relegate their old to these nursing homes.

What do other cultures do for people who can no longer take care of themselves?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senicide

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#40

Post by thatguy0900 »

rhizome wrote: post #10
thatguy0900 wrote: post #3

I work in developmental disabilities, the situation there is much the same. A lot of the time their lives just suck and the consequences of that is "solved" by giving them behavior controling medication because giving them good fulfilling lives is hard and expensive. I don't see any reason it would be different for nursing homes.

You could say the same about my use of an antidepressant.

The tragedy of the articles situation is that someone in a nursing home or assisted living has little or no agency to improve their lives, so the meds seem forced upon them. The common man has the perception of having agency to improve his own situation, so it's not as tragic to have to be on antidepressants.
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