Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

More on Vaccine Side Effects

blogs.sciencemag.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 96 posts

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#31

Post by ElViajero »

phtrivier wrote: post #3

I would have noded and approved this article 24 hours ago. Now vaccination is about to be made de-facto mandatory in France (with a snarky timing that will prevent some people from getting all their shots before restrictions pop in.) ; and I know that I'm going to be a bit less receptive, because of the tension between "this is sane science" and "this is a terrible bet on the future from a politician that got a lot o…

> And I hate being forced into a _team_.

Maybe you would like to be able to shit on the street, but there are laws against it because it would be unhealthy and probably also because people would find it "indecent". I know that not be able to shit in the street limits your freedom and forces you to be on the non-shiters team. But, I think that it is for the good of society.

Maybe vaccination is different, and then we can discuss that. But just to say that you do not want to live in a society with rules seems quite extreme.

And sorry for the shitty example, but I was trying to find something not yet politicized.

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#32

Post by tbabb »

olah_1 wrote: post #22

I'm hearing a lot of people say that even if you get the vaccine, you can still get covid. Is that true?

If you're vaccinated, it's rare to get it. If you get it, it's likely to be mild or completely asymptomatic.

Basically no one who's been vaccinated has died.

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#33

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

awoimbee wrote: post #12
sofixa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with a snarky timing that will prevent some people from getting all their shots before restrictions pop in. It's not mandatory, unless you consider restaurants and travel to be necessities one needs ( and you can still use a test in lieu of a vaccine certificate, and tests are still free)

I could maybe agree if the restrictions were put in the winter, but not in the summer. People have already booked their vacation, and now they need to do a PCR every 2 days to take a train, enjoy restaurants ? That's insane ! To get the "pass sanitaire" you need: first shot -> wait 3 weeks -> second shot -> wait 2 weeks. That's more than a month !

The problem is Delta seems to have much bigger R so you are basically forced to act now as each hour counts. An alternative would be restrictions for everybody - and this would be a much worse choice for a variety of reasons.

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#34

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

tbabb wrote: post #32
olah_1 wrote: post #22

I'm hearing a lot of people say that even if you get the vaccine, you can still get covid. Is that true?

If you're vaccinated, it's rare to get it. If you get it, it's likely to be mild or completely asymptomatic. Basically no one who's been vaccinated has died.

> Basically no one who's been vaccinated has died.

It's better to be precise as the topic is quite sensitive[0]:

> Unvaccinated 48-year-old man and vaccinated man in his 80s succumb as daily cases keep rising

[0] https://www.timesofisrael.com/coronavirus-deaths-reported-in...

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#35

Post by pdkl95 »

olah_1 wrote: post #22

I'm hearing a lot of people say that even if you get the vaccine, you can still get covid. Is that true?

That's true for every vaccine against any disease. There is always a chance that the vaccine could fail or wear off for a variety of reasons. Historically this usually happens at a very low rate, but occasionally the probability of failure becomes large enough to recommend booster shots.

A major source of problems in vaccine-relate discussions is using binary language. Immunity is not a binary true/false state! Vaccines do not change a Boolean state, they greatly reduce the probability of getting the disease.

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#36

Post by CarelessExpert »

I wish I could get skeptics to believe this kind of evidence. I've had deeply frustrating conversations that went along the lines o

Them: The vaccines are more dangerous than the virus!

Me: No they aren't. There's very few cases of severe side effects. Blood clots with AZ are about the worst we've seen, though GBS is always a small risk with vaccinations.

Them: No, the vaccines are super dangerous. People have gotten really sick from them.

Me: No they haven't. Where did you hear this?

Them: Yes they have.

Repeat ad nauseum.

Unfortunately, there's a solid contingent of people who get their "news" from Facebook conspiracy groups and use social media to reinforce bad information in their bubbles. Getting to them is proving damn near impossible...

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#37

Post by mullingitover »

anonymouswacker wrote: post #29
beiller wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am mostly on board with the vaccine, going to get my 2nd shot soon. But I do have a worry; This is setting a precedent where instead of treating disease now, we will preemptively vaccinate. It actually seems morally wrong to not take these steps to preemptively vaccinate. But will all these new vaccinations cause a virus to adapt to be more viral, similarly to how antibiotics has the potential to make bacteria resi…

Given that covid is entirely treatable in 99.9+% of cases (read the studies & physician anecdotes who have been treating it effectively since last March), it makes more sense to me to take the path of being proactive, healthy, and unvaccinated until it reaches Approved status. To each their own.

This is a very naive take on the risks of infection. Just because you survive doesn't mean you're getting out unscathed[1], and it's also a pretty entitled take on access to health care. If everyone followed this advice we'd be looking at full ICUs and a lot of people asphyxiating in hospital hallways again.

Concern trolling about the approval status is also just that. The risks are pretty well known at this point and approval is a forgone conclusion. If hundreds of millions of healthy vaccinated people aren't enough proof of safety for you, then final FDA approval won't be, either.

[1] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#38

Post by jdavis703 »

anonymouswacker wrote: post #29
beiller wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am mostly on board with the vaccine, going to get my 2nd shot soon. But I do have a worry; This is setting a precedent where instead of treating disease now, we will preemptively vaccinate. It actually seems morally wrong to not take these steps to preemptively vaccinate. But will all these new vaccinations cause a virus to adapt to be more viral, similarly to how antibiotics has the potential to make bacteria resi…

Given that covid is entirely treatable in 99.9+% of cases (read the studies & physician anecdotes who have been treating it effectively since last March), it makes more sense to me to take the path of being proactive, healthy, and unvaccinated until it reaches Approved status. To each their own.

It’s only easily treatable while there is spare health system capacity. When the system is overwhelmed they’re only going to treat a select amount of people who need treatment.

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#39

Post by abystander »

ElViajero wrote: post #31
phtrivier wrote: post #3

I would have noded and approved this article 24 hours ago. Now vaccination is about to be made de-facto mandatory in France (with a snarky timing that will prevent some people from getting all their shots before restrictions pop in.) ; and I know that I'm going to be a bit less receptive, because of the tension between "this is sane science" and "this is a terrible bet on the future from a politician that got a lot o…

> And I hate being forced into a _team_. Maybe you would like to be able to shit on the street, but there are laws against it because it would be unhealthy and probably also because people would find it "indecent". I know that not be able to shit in the street limits your freedom and forces you to be on the non-shiters team. But, I think that it is for the good of society. Maybe vaccination is different, and then we…

> But just to say that you do not want to live in a society with rules seems quite extreme.

You could easily say this to justify mistreatment of undocumented people or deportation. Or incarceration, excessive sentencing, etc.

I feel like (generally speaking) liberals unwisely discount that the same machinery used to construct their utopian, technocratic, behemoth state will be abused by despots.

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#40

Post by tboyd47 »

ben_w wrote: post #15
briantakita wrote: post #2

Now that the vaccine injuries can no longer be hidden from the public, the industry seeks to capture the discussion to retain their influence on public opinion. The core of the argument is risk assessment based on the statistics that they provided. The problem is, if they were lying about existence vaccine injuries, what is to stop them from lying about the statistics? A better solution to restore a proper feedback m…

There are many countries with many different jurisdictions and drug safety requirements, and not all vaccines passed all jurisdictions’ rules. Also, I’m no lawyer, but I would expect an act of negligence — as compared to “risks inherent in bringing forward new products to prevent severe cases of a virulent disease with known severe side effects in a significant minority of those not killed by it” — is already frowned…

The limits of vaccine safety pessimism go far, far beyond your estimation.

GP is probably an American and referring specifically to the immunity established by the NCVIA.

Post reply on HN