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Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

seattletimes.com

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Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#31

Post by mataug »

qqtt wrote: post #13

I never understood the secretive nature of these Amazon "devplan" / "FOCUS" lists. If an employee has a performance issue, they should know. Period. If they are on a formal list, they should know that too. The only "positive" here is that it can affect the individual's moral to know you are not meeting expectations - but that has to be communicated regardless. If it's understood it has to be communicated and there is…

A toxic culture of fear is the intended effect here.

People at amazon love to discuss the flywheel effect[1]. The flywheel here is the culture of fear that keeps employees on their toes. Bezos believes that employees are inherently lazy[2], and it seems like fear is tool the S-team have chosen to solve the problem of lazy employees.

This has a lot of unintended consequences[3], but the executives with the power to change this don't care as long as they keep getting rewarded with a higher stock price, and fresh college grads who are willing to sacrifice themselves at the altar.

[1]https://feedvisor.com/resources/amazon-trends/amazon-flywhee...

[2]https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-polices-based-jeff-be...

[3]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27786829

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#32

Post by f6v »

aaomidi wrote: post #18

Meanwhile Amazon recruiters keep spamming me to join their cult. No one *wants* to work for you anymore. You don't need to recruit. If someone is desperate enough they'll let you know.

You’d be surprised. Do they pay well? Do they have cool products?

“I’ve done a lot more for a lot less” - The Office.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#33

Post by NortySpock »

> Amazon instructs managers not to tell office employees that they are on a formal performance-management plan that puts their job in jeopardy unless the employee explicitly asks, according to guidance from an Amazon intranet page for managers.

Wait, what's the point of putting someone on a PIP/PMP if you don't even tell them their performance needs to improve (or they need to jump ship)?

They aren't likely to change if you don't tell them to change.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#34

Post by mannykannot »

arcticbull wrote: post #15
tablespoon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s not a “conceal” as it is a lack of discussion. Lack of discussion is concealment. Knowing you're on a formal PIP is to know whatever performance issues your manager might be telling you about are actually serious and that your job is on the line. It's my understanding that formal tracking of performance issues is frequently a CYA step prior to termination.

> "Amazon instructs managers not to tell office employees that they are on a formal performance-management plan that puts their job in jeopardy unless the employee explicitly asks, according to guidance from an Amazon intranet page for managers." The fact is the PIP hasn't put their job in jeopardy, it was their not meeting expectations that put their job in jeopardy. The reality is once you're there, it's (a) probab…

Putting aside everything else, having a formal performance-management plan, in which those put on it will be informed of that fact, normally means that most employees will have some evidence for not feeling afraid that each day they walk into the office may be their last.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#35

Post by imwillofficial »

As the runt of the litter in my AWS team, I thankfully have avoided such plans. I’ve never been at a company so willing to frame mistakes and shortcomings as chances to grow.

Other people clearly are having different experiences.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#36

Post by BigBubbleButt »

mattkrause wrote: post #30
nasalgoat wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't decades of that policy at Microsoft prove that it doesn't work? People then optimize to make sure they only work on projects to keep their score up.

Basic math too. Suppose “ability” is normally distributed in the population and in your initial team too. Replace people when the new candidate improves the team’s median ability (supposedly what Amazon’s “Bar Raiser” checks). I kicked together a simulation of this process. The first replacement is pretty easy (50/50), but the hundredth hire on a team of ten often takes tens of thousands of interviews, and sometimes…

How many years does it take a team of 10 to get to their 100th hire? If they only replace 1 person a year, ~100 interviews a year sounds pretty normal to me (it actually sounds low compared to where I last worked where I sometimes interviewed multiple people a day).

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#37

Post by potatolicious »

void_mint wrote: post #14
nashashmi wrote: post #2

It’s not a “conceal” as it is a lack of discussion. I get that being put on performance management plan can be demoralizing. The article makes it appear unjust. It only reveals the true nature of the concealing AFTER it has narrated the whole story with opinions. This is ridiculous. Amazon is doing it exactly right. However there needs to be transparency at the minimum expected performance. For all employees. And whe…

> Amazon instructs managers not to tell office employees that they are on a formal performance-management plan that puts their job in jeopardy unless the employee explicitly asks, according to guidance from an Amazon intranet page for managers. This is distinctly not a "Performance Management Plan", as the plan involves the employee and provides clear guidelines for success. If you're concealing that they're on a PIP…

> but it just seems silly to call something a PIP that is actually not at all a PIP.

Or it's too good at being a PIP ;)

Many PIPs (in my experience: most PIPs) are not good faith attempts to allow a poorly-performing employee to improve. The decision to fire them was made before the PIP was issued, the PIP is just documentation to protect the company in the case of a lawsuit.

Amazon's approach here - if correctly reported - seems like it takes the step of embracing a PIP for what it actually is, by making it purely a documentation/justification task and eschewing the (often make-believe) step of letting employees fulfill the requirements of the PIP.

Overall I'm very much against non-transparent PIPs. Short of gross behavior, employees deserve to know if they are going to be let go for performance and prepare an exit plan. Not to mention PIPs are often arbitrary and capricious - not every employee on a PIP is actually poorly-performing. At the very least it gives people time to jump ship.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#38

Post by temp8964 »

potatolicious wrote: post #28
temp8964 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. The management team can make mistakes too. In those cases, it is not clear whether it is better for the employee to know. There is no clear cut obvious answer to this, unless you assume everyone is an emotionless robot.

I didn't read OP's comment as "performance issues should be publicized within the workforce" and more "performance issues should be known to the individual employee" If management thinks you're doing a bad job, it's not needed to make it known to the entire team - but you should know.

I don't think you should always know. I also updated the language.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#40

Post by havkom »

oofabz wrote: post #24
nasalgoat wrote: post #3

Most successful companies I know are constantly recruiting and trying to keep people onboard - why would they be trying to actively get rid of people?

>why would they be trying to actively get rid of people? It's extremely demoralizing to work with people who are bad at their job. It makes me feel as though my hard work is unappreciated, because someone who is not working hard gets the same treatment. Sometimes the employee is slacking off, sometimes they are bad at their job. Either way, if their failure to contribute is bringing the rest of the team down, they ha…

I have encountered co-workers who bring a clear negative contribution to the team. I am not taking of not making enough of a value for the company for what they are paid but rather damaging the company even if they were paid nothing. These people have all been eventually let go by the different companies I have worked for.
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