Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#31

Post by mnd999 » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

Aardwolf wrote: post #19

wang_li wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An encrypted hdd/ssd will help of someone steals your computer, removes your drive, and tries to read it from another computer in order to bypass your passwords. It won’t do shit for ransom ware. Ransom ware runs as a user land program and does encryption from within your OS where you data is live and unencrypted. The end result will be a hard drive full of encrypted files that is then reencrypted by bitlocker.

If someone steals your computer, they also have the TPM, which has the key, right? What am I missing about what TPM does that is so secure?

The TPM combined with secure boot will only unlock the disk if nothings been tampered with, meaning your OS security is intact. If you switch off secure boot or mess with the kernel or boot loader it’ll just refuse to unlock.

I would guess extracting the keys from the tpm in other ways is not impossible, but probably sufficiently hard to be not worth it in most situations.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#32

Post by andyjansson » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 9:11 PM UTC

sedatk wrote: post #9

I think the article makes a good point about the arbitrary red line drawn between two CPU generations with no justification whatsoever, but "heaps of trash" isn't the strongest argument against this. Arguably, Intel releasing new CPUs causes that even more heaps of trash, probably orders of magnitude more than Windows. It's a silly argument IMHO.

I don't think it's a silly argument at all. Windows 10 will meet its EOL in 2025, meaning that our computers only have 4 more years left in them (or you switch to something like linux, but that's not really an option for most people for obvious reasons). This will make the computers unattractive on the second-hand market. IMO a computer should be serviceable for longer than 7 years.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#33

Post by my123 » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

Aardwolf wrote: post #19

wang_li wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An encrypted hdd/ssd will help of someone steals your computer, removes your drive, and tries to read it from another computer in order to bypass your passwords. It won’t do shit for ransom ware. Ransom ware runs as a user land program and does encryption from within your OS where you data is live and unencrypted. The end result will be a hard drive full of encrypted files that is then reencrypted by bitlocker.

If someone steals your computer, they also have the TPM, which has the key, right? What am I missing about what TPM does that is so secure?

The TPM gets the measurements of the state of the system during different phases of the boot process, and only releases the key if those measurements match.

It's also designed to not be able to be able to extract the key material out of it.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#34

Post by ehsankia » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

eric__cartman wrote: post #27

I hope the public backlash against Microsoft is large enough that they revert there ridiculous system requirements. Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I guess. But TPM 2.0. You've got to be kidding me. Also enabling secure boot is a pain in the ass for users that dual boot, because in Linux, to load a custom compiled kernel module you have to sign it first and do a whole lot of mumbling around to get it working.…

While overall agree, Windows 10 will be supported until 2025. By then any device without TPM 2.0 support would be at least 10 years old, right?

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#35

Post by DarkmSparks » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

Personlly, I'm just disappointed windows 11 isn't a Linux fork. No way I'm throwing out my Mac or Linux boxes for the trash they just demonstrated. (and its been 2 years since I had anything more than a win 7 VM now)

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#36

Post by nwellinghoff » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

Windows 10 support goes through 2025. And they will prob do a forced security patch so you should be good until 2027ish.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#37

Post by squarefoot » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

sedatk wrote: post #9

I think the article makes a good point about the arbitrary red line drawn between two CPU generations with no justification whatsoever, but "heaps of trash" isn't the strongest argument against this. Arguably, Intel releasing new CPUs causes that even more heaps of trash, probably orders of magnitude more than Windows. It's a silly argument IMHO.

Releasing new CPUs doesn't make older ones unusable; making an OS incompatible with them without good reason does.

The article wording might not be the best, still it's spot on: users whose software will require Windows 11 (or simply who won't feel like going back after upgrading) will be forced to ditch their system, which in a world dominated by Windows, therefore many users with the same problem, is a lot more likely to turn into trash rather than sold as used.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#38

Post by romwell » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

benbristow wrote: post #24

1stranger wrote: post #12

I don't understand this logic. The vast majority of people don't care what version of Windows they're running. They'll just keep running Windows 10 without a care in the world. Just like they keep running Windows 7.

I don't think Microsoft would want to make that same mistake again. I would expect Microsoft start pushing Windows 11 automatically through Windows Update for anyone on Windows 10, or at least start pushing heavily through popups/notifications to start the update like they did with Windows 10.

Soooo, the people who can't install Windows 11 will continue to not care?

I don't understand the logic of your response. It's not like Microsoft will brick machines not eligible for Win 11

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#39

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

azalemeth wrote: post #17

arthurcolle wrote: post #4

Sorry for the aside, but do these TPM 2.0 modules actually guarantee any additional security?

As ever with security questions, the answer to that depends a lot on your threat model. Microsoft say that the main features of TPMs are that they [1]: > Generate, store, and limit the use of cryptographic keys. > Use TPM technology for platform device authentication by using the TPM’s unique RSA key, which is burned into itself. > Help ensure platform integrity by taking and storing security measurements. One can, i…

[deleted]

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#40

Post by midnitewarrior » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

frozenport wrote: post #11

This article doesn't explain why it will create the waste? What changed in the spec, is it enforced?

I have a perfectly good PC from 2015 that has a Gen 5 Intel processor. It is 64-bit, 6-core, supports TPM 2.0, and supports the virtualization instructions, UEFI, etc.

I have 64 gigs of ram in this and other upgrades, it works great, but it will die with Win 10 because the CPU isn't on Microsoft's list. When Win 10 support is done, so is my PC that I've invested a lot of money in. So yeah, it's going to become trash or a Linux box I haven't a need for.