Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pure stupidity. Never attribute to malice what can easily be explained by incompetence and stupidity
>"Pure stupidity. Never attribute to malice..." Like drunk drivers. They were just stupid and did not mean anything bad. Right? Sorry but if part of the government stuff that creates the rules is that "smart" they should be in janitorial positions. Problem is government nearly always gets away with anything they do.
Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years
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Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years
#32This is sadly true, completely due to inability of bureaucrats of using their brains and mostly done by the administrative services of Lisbon town hall. It is a major political scandal in Portugal, and does look like the town hall president will not survive without resigning. It is a clear case of "Hanlon's Razor" although a very unfortunate one.
> It is a major political scandal in Portugal, and does look like the town hall president will not survive without resigning As someone who's lived here all his life: doubtful.
Sadly I have to agree, the prime minister already escaped some scandals and Medina will not be any different
Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years
#33Governments (and cities are local governments, for the matter) have huge powers in what they can do and what they can do to the citizens. For example in Romania, my country, government entities are practically exempted from GDPR; they also exempt banks and other regulated entities from GDPR rules on collecting data in weird ways, for example there is a national bank rule that the banks need to collect personal data about account holders, no matter the age or amount, that does not apply to the account holder but allows the bank to freeze all your accounts if you don't comply. They really don't need to know your mother's name, but they get it this way and GDPR protection agency never takes action on these situations.
Lisbon city giving such data to embassies is not a mistake or stupidity, it is abuse of power. They have a power that is just transferred at elections to different masters, but they act like they own, in a feudal way, the people. As someone recently said (about taxes): "where are they going to go? We put a minimum everywhere, so there is no escape"
Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years
#34Well, Lisbon is not only one, but pretty much all of progressive liberal West been in bed with enemies at some point for "strategic" reasons (which usually means cash, and other treats.) France deports Russians with protected refugee status upon KGB requests in exchange for Russia staying away from them in Africa Poland plays double games with Belorussian opposition, promising assisting in smuggling weapons, and then…
I was taking your claims somewhat seriously until you massively misrepresented the very case for which you even provide an article. Now I guess all of what you are saying is either massive misrepresentation or plain false.
The guy was passing info about German agents to the US, not about foreigners/dissidents, and is facing life in prison for it. Embarrassing to betray your country and job for €1600/month. But it would be pretty odd if the German intelligence had a strategy of passing info about its own agents to the US.
I conclude that PT is likely an exception and the rest above probably made up conspiracy theories.
Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years
#35I read two articles on Politico.EU on the subject. Yet, I have a few questions. First, was there a request made to share data? Second, if there was a request made - what is the legal procedure to share data? Third, if there was no request made - why did the Portugal proactively share data?
Portugal is not very competitive internationally, so their economy became dependent on government contracts and deals with politically exposed persons. For example, most of Angola's corrupt elite stashed their wealth in Portugal by buying property and businesses. Additionally, corrupt countries are very hard to do business in without kickbacks, but if you're willing to play the game, it becomes very easy, as in your…
What do you mean by "large"?
perhaps the circles that YOU frequent are powered by them.
Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
>"Pure stupidity. Never attribute to malice..." Like drunk drivers. They were just stupid and did not mean anything bad. Right? Sorry but if part of the government stuff that creates the rules is that "smart" they should be in janitorial positions. Problem is government nearly always gets away with anything they do.
A municipality is not the government. These are low level bureaucrats.
Low quality, but high level bureaucrats.
Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years
#37Well, Lisbon is not only one, but pretty much all of progressive liberal West been in bed with enemies at some point for "strategic" reasons (which usually means cash, and other treats.) France deports Russians with protected refugee status upon KGB requests in exchange for Russia staying away from them in Africa Poland plays double games with Belorussian opposition, promising assisting in smuggling weapons, and then…
> Germany's BND was caught doing basically the same as Portugal, in exchange for some dubious "intelligence collaboration," but they found scapegoat: https://www.dw.com/en/trial-opens-against-german-intelligenc ... I was taking your claims somewhat seriously until you massively misrepresented the very case for which you even provide an article. Now I guess all of what you are saying is either massive misrepresentatio…
Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Portugal is not very competitive internationally, so their economy became dependent on government contracts and deals with politically exposed persons. For example, most of Angola's corrupt elite stashed their wealth in Portugal by buying property and businesses. Additionally, corrupt countries are very hard to do business in without kickbacks, but if you're willing to play the game, it becomes very easy, as in your…
> A large chunk of Portugals economy is powered by Angola. What do you mean by "large"? perhaps the circles that YOU frequent are powered by them.
Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was no request (afaik) done by any of the involved parties. By law, if you’re planning a rally/event/etc you have to make a request to your local mayorship, who then approves it (or not) while informing the police about it, so that security details can be planned. Since the rallies in question involved displays related to certain countries or were held in front of embassies (like the one supporting Navalny, whi…
Freedom of assembly conditional upon something is not a freedom, by definition.
Freedom in general or in reference to a particular type never means you can do whatever you want. The entire premise of civil society is that there are conditions on behavior. It is a fundamental principal that one person's freedom ends where another person's begins. Or as I've heard it said, "The freedom of your fist ends at the tip of my nose".
Re: Lisbon has shared dissident info with repressive regimes for years
#40Well, Lisbon is not only one, but pretty much all of progressive liberal West been in bed with enemies at some point for "strategic" reasons (which usually means cash, and other treats.) France deports Russians with protected refugee status upon KGB requests in exchange for Russia staying away from them in Africa Poland plays double games with Belorussian opposition, promising assisting in smuggling weapons, and then…
> Germany's BND was caught doing basically the same as Portugal, in exchange for some dubious "intelligence collaboration," but they found scapegoat: https://www.dw.com/en/trial-opens-against-german-intelligenc ... I was taking your claims somewhat seriously until you massively misrepresented the very case for which you even provide an article. Now I guess all of what you are saying is either massive misrepresentatio…