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Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

johnhcochrane.blogspot.com

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Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#31

Post by mc32 »

alisonkisk wrote: post #19
cwwc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the toilets in Taiwan are great —- and free. They have masses of public toilets in park, along with cleaning attendants. But here is the rub —- in the US, they would be overrun with homeless (I’m not saying this is bad; just that it would be the reality) while in TW the people who are attending to them would likely be homeless were they in the US. Is part of this cultural? Yep, probably. Is part of it structural…

What are those roles in in TW? McD employees, for all their troubles, are well above "pooping in the park" in economic comfort.

The lowest rung there are the recyclers. They pick up recyclable trash (kind of like the trash bin ladies do in SF but unlike SF don't leave a strewn mess). They rummage through dumpsters looking for recyclable items, take them to places which can recycle them for pennies, but it's enough to survive.

It's kind of like if you had people redeeming bottles and cans and lived in section-8 housing.

But these people are going around in third hand bikes pulling hand fashioned carts, sometimes the carts are human driven if they don't have a bike.

The big difference is there is no shame in being a recycling collector, but there is shame in being a burden to society.

Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#32

Post by GoOnThenDoTell »

cwwc wrote: post #12
Macha wrote: post #10

Has someone gone and bulk downvoted everyone that disagrees with the premise that toilets must be paid? It seems every comment is at 0 or negative

Weird, it seems so.

Not weird

The silent majority just wants to do their number 2 with minimum hassle

Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#33

Post by adolph »

So Cochrane claims that toilet “attendant” work is “well suited to new immigrants.” Really?

The rational for the claim is that immigrants “don't speak English, are not well attuned to American culture, and have little education or training.” Really?

I don’t disagree with the overall point about public potty markets but there is something off putting about claiming that “dirty” jobs are for people without skills and that immigrants are a class of people without skills when the larger portion of those I see are highly accomplished people who are chronically undervalued.

Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#34

Post by WuTangCFO »

I have lived in London, NZ, Australia. All have had free toilets. Why? Growing up in NZ free bathrooms were normal so we take it for granted. Yes, a small population means that these facilities were less likely to be abused. But London? In Shoreditch, a part of East London that is full of pubs and hipsters quaffing the Devil's Dandruff the council sets up urinals in the street where any punter can see you pissing but only your back (it's an Octagonal urinal and you face a wall). This was a fantastic solution to an ancient problem. This may offend the yanks God-fearing sensibilities but surely a step up from seeing the perps member out in full view. The open nature of this urinal also means people are less likely to rob, kill or shag you. Surely one of you lads could bring the weeze trough to SF and make a bundle? A ye entrepreneurs or no?

Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#35

Post by HKH2 »

whatastory wrote: post #9

I don't want to seem too accusatory, but this just felt like an angry rant without much research. I've been to a few places on this earth, and while I know there are some Europeans who'll proudly talk about how paying for toilets helps keep them clean, I haven't noticed them being any better than gas station bathrooms in the US. Some are okay, some are total disaster sites. The only difference is someone or a machine…

I don't think I've ever seen a public toilet in China that flushes properly. Only those in malls in richer areas.

One time, I went into a train station cubicle, looked down and saw that all the cubicles shared one channel to do your business in, and as expected, no water was passing through to wash anything away.

China does not do decently in regards to toilets.

Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#36

Post by astrea »

cwwc wrote: post #11
whatastory wrote: post #9

I don't want to seem too accusatory, but this just felt like an angry rant without much research. I've been to a few places on this earth, and while I know there are some Europeans who'll proudly talk about how paying for toilets helps keep them clean, I haven't noticed them being any better than gas station bathrooms in the US. Some are okay, some are total disaster sites. The only difference is someone or a machine…

Yes, the toilets in Taiwan are great —- and free. They have masses of public toilets in park, along with cleaning attendants. But here is the rub —- in the US, they would be overrun with homeless (I’m not saying this is bad; just that it would be the reality) while in TW the people who are attending to them would likely be homeless were they in the US. Is part of this cultural? Yep, probably. Is part of it structural…

I don't understand this argument in American politics ("If we build something nice, those no good poor people will just ruin it!") and I especially don't understand it in this context. Unless my memory is far worse than I imagined, there are free toilets everywhere in the US (not so much now with COVID restrictions) and they're not all overrun with homeless. Have you never been to a public beach?

Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#37

Post by riantogo »

kgermino wrote: post #15

I’ve always felt that the advantage of pay toilets wasn’t that they were clean, it was that they exist . Walking around an American city trying to find a restroom can be extremely challenging, while in European cities I could almost always find a sign and a public restroom in short order (even outside the more touristy areas). I don’t know if there are actually more public toilets in those cities - or if the culture…

My experience has be exactly the opposite. Never struggled to find a toilet in the US. In Europe, as a tourist, no public toilets and shops display prominent sign that it is for customers only. So often I had to buy $8 coke (served flat with half an ice-cube) for the privilege to use a toilet in the basement with space no bigger than the pot itself (and the pot has no toilet seat). Just sharing a counter experience.

Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#38

Post by HKH2 »

whiddershins wrote: post #28
whatastory wrote: post #9

I don't want to seem too accusatory, but this just felt like an angry rant without much research. I've been to a few places on this earth, and while I know there are some Europeans who'll proudly talk about how paying for toilets helps keep them clean, I haven't noticed them being any better than gas station bathrooms in the US. Some are okay, some are total disaster sites. The only difference is someone or a machine…

I believed you that you might be saying accurate things until you wrote ‘even China does pretty decently.’ I spent two weeks traveling around China and, when it comes to toilets, what you said couldn’t be more insanely inaccurate. I decline to go into details, but it’s is in every way the opposite of what you wrote.

Exactly. If you go to China (edit: I don't mean just staying in 5 star hotels), expect to see someone else's excrement at some point.

Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#39

Post by patio11 »

This is always a fun thing to explain to people at home in Tokyo.

"Oh wow this office building put the toilet outside the security cordon." "What." "Well the guard checking badges is there and the toilet is outside that, so, well, that would never happen [in a big city in US]." "... Do you think the valuable things in this building are stored... in the toilet?" "Ah, no, that's not the nature of the problem." "What is..." "... It's complicated." "How complicated can it be?" "It's actually not complicated but more of a taboo to acknowledge."

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