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Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

johnhcochrane.blogspot.com

11–20 of 119 posts

Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#11

I don't want to seem too accusatory, but this just felt like an angry rant without much research. I've been to a few places on this earth, and while I know there are some Europeans who'll proudly talk about how paying for toilets helps keep them clean, I haven't noticed them being any better than gas station bathrooms in the US. Some are okay, some are total disaster sites. The only difference is someone or a machine…

Yes, the toilets in Taiwan are great —- and free. They have masses of public toilets in park, along with cleaning attendants. But here is the rub —- in the US, they would be overrun with homeless (I’m not saying this is bad; just that it would be the reality) while in TW the people who are attending to them would likely be homeless were they in the US. Is part of this cultural? Yep, probably. Is part of it structural? I think so —- because there are roles for people in TW, the “lowest rung” of society, while the only role stateside is along the side of the road or perhaps a MCD worker.

Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#14

I don't want to seem too accusatory, but this just felt like an angry rant without much research. I've been to a few places on this earth, and while I know there are some Europeans who'll proudly talk about how paying for toilets helps keep them clean, I haven't noticed them being any better than gas station bathrooms in the US. Some are okay, some are total disaster sites. The only difference is someone or a machine…

This is about the same as I felt after reading this-- and his comment explaining Tokyo's free public toilets, "No homeless, no drugs, no crime, 100% politeness rate?", all but confirmed those suspicions for me. It reads more like an ideological rant than a considered treatise on potty economics.

Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#15
I’ve always felt that the advantage of pay toilets wasn’t that they were clean, it was that they exist.

Walking around an American city trying to find a restroom can be extremely challenging, while in European cities I could almost always find a sign and a public restroom in short order (even outside the more touristy areas).

I don’t know if there are actually more public toilets in those cities - or if the culture just includes more prominent signage - but remembering to carry change is way better than going shop to shop begging to use the toilet.

Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#17
> Kristof and the Times, of course, would prefer a national infrastructure project to provide free toilets. If you've followed this over the years, you will see many efforts at government provided toilets. Costs are often hundreds of thousands of dollars, and the effort falls apart. There are some free toilets. In Chicago, the park district still had some. Without the incentive to charge a bit of money, they were typically disgusting and dangerous.

Most cities and towns already have a large number of free toilets in parks and businesses. Some are privately owned and maintained, some are publicly owned and maintained. There just aren't enough of them (in most US cities). This is clearly a problem that can be solved with a little planning and adequate funding.

And realistically, a root of the cost problem is that one could expect that about 90% of the costs are created by 1% of the users. Bathrooms aren't expensive to operate as long as people don't make a mess. I find it surprising that even working a tech industry job in a building complex populated by generally competent, responsible adults that there are almost always paper towels on the floor of the bathroom. I can understand once in awhile maybe dropping one, or not noticing that it didn't make its way into the waste basket. Or a person with joint or mobility issues might not be able to reach down and pick it up. But still, it's a continuous thing. Why?

Ideally we'd find a way to alter the average person's behavior not to make a mess in the bathroom, but that's easier said than done. I don't know what the right policies there would be that aren't overly intrusive.

Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#18
I feel like at the very least we could have some super basic open air toilets. No toilet paper, no roof, just a toilet with running water and a tap. Almost no maintenance, and people won't camp out inside, but objectively better than a tree or something. I suppose the lack of TP would be more ok for men than women though.

Re: Pay toilets and NYT: a free market microcosm

#19
post #11

I don't want to seem too accusatory, but this just felt like an angry rant without much research. I've been to a few places on this earth, and while I know there are some Europeans who'll proudly talk about how paying for toilets helps keep them clean, I haven't noticed them being any better than gas station bathrooms in the US. Some are okay, some are total disaster sites. The only difference is someone or a machine…

Yes, the toilets in Taiwan are great —- and free. They have masses of public toilets in park, along with cleaning attendants. But here is the rub —- in the US, they would be overrun with homeless (I’m not saying this is bad; just that it would be the reality) while in TW the people who are attending to them would likely be homeless were they in the US. Is part of this cultural? Yep, probably. Is part of it structural…

What are those roles in in TW? McD employees, for all their troubles, are well above "pooping in the park" in economic comfort.
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