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University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

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Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#31

Post by lmilcin »

dandanua wrote: post #19
kleiba wrote: post #15

I recently read Dijkstra's "On the fact that the Atlantic Ocean has two sides". [1] In vast parts, it's not much more than mildly disguised US-bashing (Dijkstra was always a grumpy old man) but that's not what caught my eye. What did was the fact that he describes the US research landscape as a system that orients itself around short-term projects and industry desires. Dijkstra clearly expresses his contempt for this…

It looks like our civilization has passed its peak and now bouncing back to medieval ages.

If you read historic books you will notice this sentiment has been present almost constantly since antiquity.

The fact is you get current state with all its gory details but the past with bad parts filtered out.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#32

Post by cm2187 »

kleiba wrote: post #15

I recently read Dijkstra's "On the fact that the Atlantic Ocean has two sides". [1] In vast parts, it's not much more than mildly disguised US-bashing (Dijkstra was always a grumpy old man) but that's not what caught my eye. What did was the fact that he describes the US research landscape as a system that orients itself around short-term projects and industry desires. Dijkstra clearly expresses his contempt for this…

You still have to keep in mind that something like 90% of the technological advances of the XX century were born in US labs. So it’s not that broken.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#33

Post by Lio »

dandanua wrote: post #19
kleiba wrote: post #15

I recently read Dijkstra's "On the fact that the Atlantic Ocean has two sides". [1] In vast parts, it's not much more than mildly disguised US-bashing (Dijkstra was always a grumpy old man) but that's not what caught my eye. What did was the fact that he describes the US research landscape as a system that orients itself around short-term projects and industry desires. Dijkstra clearly expresses his contempt for this…

It looks like our civilization has passed its peak and now bouncing back to medieval ages.

Which is ironic considering that Medieval Literature, and Chaucer in particular, is one of the other things the University of Leicester were talking about getting rid of.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#34

Post by glapworth »

I used to work as an Lecturer in the other University in Leicester and I have lots of friends and colleagues working in various departments at Leicester University. It looks like the financial situation at the University is quite bad, and this isn’t the first time the executive has threatened to close this department. I feel for the people working there at the moment. Sad times.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#35

Post by LatteLazy »

throwaways885 wrote: post #30
LatteLazy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it used to be that the government paid that and students went for free or got a grant. Starting back in 2002 they cut the amount the government paid and increased what students paid. So the unis didn't get any more money, the government just saved cash. Total BS imho, but don't get me started...

It would be less of an issue if there was an actual free market, instead all unis just max out the student loan and still complain there's not enough money. I'd happily go to a shack if there's good teaching. The US are even more innovative in ripping off students.

I'm always surprised their aren't more US schools that are just academics. They all seem to have football teams and sports stadiums and up market dorms.

I went to Exeter. I picked the cheapest accommodation. I was more than happy with the on site sports centre. I wouldn't want to pay double for gold taps and an arena.

I think it would be interesting to see how places fared if tuition was linked to rankings. Top 10 can charge full wack, Next 10 80%, etc. But that would force people to make hard decisions...

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#36

Post by KaiserPro »

throwaways885 wrote: post #30
LatteLazy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it used to be that the government paid that and students went for free or got a grant. Starting back in 2002 they cut the amount the government paid and increased what students paid. So the unis didn't get any more money, the government just saved cash. Total BS imho, but don't get me started...

It would be less of an issue if there was an actual free market, instead all unis just max out the student loan and still complain there's not enough money. I'd happily go to a shack if there's good teaching. The US are even more innovative in ripping off students.

I don't think a free market would help that much.

It would have been better if they'd just actually made "tuition fees" an actual proper graduation tax, rather than a tax for the poor and a loan for the rich.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#37

Post by KaiserPro »

ALittleLight wrote: post #2

The tweets say that pure math is an important part of the ecosystem of scholarship at a university (slight paraphrase) and I agree with that. I don't really have any concern about axing medieval literature though.

thats the spirit, "my thing is important, yours is just rubbish and should be done away with"

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#38

Post by potamic »

kleiba wrote: post #15

I recently read Dijkstra's "On the fact that the Atlantic Ocean has two sides". [1] In vast parts, it's not much more than mildly disguised US-bashing (Dijkstra was always a grumpy old man) but that's not what caught my eye. What did was the fact that he describes the US research landscape as a system that orients itself around short-term projects and industry desires. Dijkstra clearly expresses his contempt for this…

Sadly it's the same in software these days. I've seen places where the business teams outnumber the development teams. It's such a clusterfuck with everyone trying to steer the direction their way, when only so much can be built. Of course, when it comes to hiring more devs, "we don't have the budget for it".

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#39

Post by foldr »

inglor_cz wrote: post #26
foldr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Students wanting to get their money’s worth is exactly the root cause of this. Trust me, British Universities are bending over backwards to give students what they want. If you’ve been anywhere near a British University you’d know how ridiculous it is to suggest that the staff are somehow secretly organizing BLM protests (??) as part of a plan to stop students noticing how much money they’re spending (??)

I noticed the general bending over backwards and I think the various political activities are a part of that. But you do not have to secretly organize X to benefit from it. You can just let the river flow and float on it. It is safe, non-controversial and does not require much effort.

Universities have been centers of protest for a long time, and extracurricular stuff has always been a major component of what attracts students. I don’t really see much connection between this and the closing of the maths department at the University of Leicester. Students these days are very career focused, and research is funded based on “impact”. These are the driving forces. The image of the student who cares more about radical politics than learning anything or finding a job is from the 1960s, not the 2020s.

I’ve been in plenty of meetings where we tried to make students happier, and I can assure you that it’s all by boring means such as inflating grades and reducing workloads (and indeed by more worthy and less cynical means from time to time). Politics on campus gets a lot of press coverage, but it’s a marginal issue in terms of student satisfaction.

Re: University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty

#40

Post by foldr »

throwaways885 wrote: post #24
foldr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Students wanting to get their money’s worth is exactly the root cause of this. Trust me, British Universities are bending over backwards to give students what they want. If you’ve been anywhere near a British University you’d know how ridiculous it is to suggest that the staff are somehow secretly organizing BLM protests (??) as part of a plan to stop students noticing how much money they’re spending (??)

The universities should cut their losses then, and tell students to go somewhere else. Part of the issue is placating every whim of students, focusing on the fluff and not on the teaching.

I fully agree. It turns out that there are long-term costs to giving 18 year olds everything they think that they want for your short-term financial gain.
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