Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#31

Post by cosmodisk » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 10:43 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #22

tidepod12 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of note, all of those 66 planes are leased from and operated by other cargo airlines, like Atlas Air. Amazon doesn't own the planes or employ the pilots, they just lease the ability to paint the Amazon logo on the side and have the planes fly routes they choose. It's unclear if the planes mentioned in the OP are talking about Amazon actually outright purchasing planes (which would be a first) or if they are just leas…

What's the point of painting the planes in your own colors?

The same as putting your name on a skyscraper. Whenever you are over a city or landing with your private jet, you can always tell the guy sitting in front of you: oh,look, there they are! Remember I told you I bought 12 new Boeings?

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#32

Post by grogenaut » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 10:44 PM UTC

moltar wrote: post #21

I predicted in October of 2018 [1], that in 3 years Amazon will start flying freight directly from China to US fulfillment centers and cut out the middlemen (FBA sellers). Since then Amazon has been on-boarding sellers in China at a rapid pace. - [1] https://www.scaleleap.com/zine/just-in-time-air/

To me in 2014 it was really dumb that Chinese sellers were using USA middlemen to get on Amazon instead of just directly selling on Amazon. In general it seems dumb that any manufacturer isn't just selling direct to consumer if they have a consumer finished product on Amazon.

However one insight into the reason is embedded in this anecdote: My friend was asked by a Chinese supplier to sell a thing on Amazon. But the seller then went on to try and transfer all of the inventory risk, and customer support risk to my friend. They then also refused to give a unique license to the product for Amazon to my friend and also undercut their offer to my friend with another random person in the USA. 6 months later the supplier listed V2 themselves on Amazon once the first person had built them a market and they could copy pasta all the english product info. Seller was left half their V1 inventory and had to sell at a loss to clear it.

Luckily my friend only burned the Amazon seller fee during the trial period and their time.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#33

Post by granzymes » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 10:52 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #10

tidepod12 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of note, all of those 66 planes are leased from and operated by other cargo airlines, like Atlas Air. Amazon doesn't own the planes or employ the pilots, they just lease the ability to paint the Amazon logo on the side and have the planes fly routes they choose. It's unclear if the planes mentioned in the OP are talking about Amazon actually outright purchasing planes (which would be a first) or if they are just leas…

I wonder if this means they'll be hiring their own pilots? Or are they buying the aircraft and then leasing them out to an air freight company to handle the operations? Basically the same situation but better for Amazon's taxes.

Bloomberg confirmed that the purchased planes will be operated by contractors.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-05/amazon-ma...

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#34

Post by W-Stool » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 10:57 PM UTC

If UPS is not looking over their shoulder, they should be.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#35

Post by jfim » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

fumar wrote: post #23

Do customers gain from Amazon's increased footprint? They are like a super organism growing and controlling distribution paths. Have there been other companies like Amazon in capitalist history? Google?

Probably this one, over four hundred years ago: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#36

Post by nixass » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #19

This reminds me of when Ryanair bought 100 Boeing 737-800 aircraft in 2002 after 9/11 hammered the airline industry[0], a very bold forward looking move. It was good for Ryanair and for Boeing. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2002/jan/24/theairlinei...

Right now Ryanair has almost 200 737-800MAX on order, significant amount of these were added during MAX grounding as the prices went down a lot. Bold looking move again, but still shitiest airliner out there

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#37

Post by jrockway » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 10:59 PM UTC

nickff wrote: post #16

kd913 wrote: post #11

I remember watching a video from Wendover Production talking about the decline of 747 and A380s mainly due to a lack of guaranteed passengers to fill the plane routes in both directions. Exceptions being some airlines which are able to operate hub and spoke models and where fuel is cheap like the middle east airlines. Wouldn't these types of planes be more suitable for a role in logistics which can benefit the greate…

The A340, A380, 727, 747, and L-1011 existed because of the hub-and-spoke model, and the requirement for a minimum of three engines for transoceanic flights. The 777 was the harbinger of their doom, as it brought ETOPS with it. Somewhat tangentially, there is a (strong) argument that twin-engine aircraft are actually safer than three or four engine aircraft. First, they are at lower risk of having an engine problem (…

What is interesting to me is that having 200% power onboard is more cost efficient than only having 133% power onboard.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#38

Post by jldl805 » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 11:00 PM UTC

cosmodisk wrote: post #25

Here in the UK, Amazon dumped some of the largest last mile logistics companies and rolled out their own fleet of delivery vans.

It's happened everywhere in the US now too.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#39

Post by xnyan » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 11:01 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #27

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #3

It's difficult to really get a grasp on Amazon's size but it was a bit eye opening the other day when I was driving down a rural road up in the mountains and passed by an Amazon delivery van. I would have assumed for such a remote location that they'd turn their packages over to the post office to deliver but apparently their delivery service is large enough now to service even the very rural areas.

You're probably overlooking the Amazon distribution center that isn't far away.

I live in a small ruralish area (it's not uncommon for my neighbors to have horses and cows, backyard chickens are a dime a dozen) and at least 50 miles from the nearest amazon distribution center. Our "neighborhood" is 14 homes on 1 1/2 streets. A few years ago, the amazon sprinter van started making some some deliveries but fedex was more likely. Today not only does amazon exclusively deliver all their orders here, we've been upgraded to the larger boxy bread truck style van which makes deliveries to multiple homes in our micro neighborhood every day including Sunday.

All anecdotal but it seems like amazon has made huge progress in their delivery infrastructure in a short period of time.

Re: Amazon buys 11 Boeing 767s to expand its cargo fleet

#40

Post by recursion » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 11:01 PM UTC

jonwadsworth wrote: post #15

Will Amazon start to transport other things; in addition to goods they are selling? Human transport? Compete directly with UPS/FedEx?

This is what I speculated above. Basically AWS for logistics. It can't be far off in many countries such as USA/UK