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Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

americanaffairsjournal.org

31–40 of 55 posts

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#31

> Importantly, Utah’s success also shows up in health data. Utah’s cumulative case fatality rate—arguably the most important measure of pandemic success—measures 0.63 percent (compared to the national rate of 2.87 percent) and ranks lowest in the nation (as of this writing in October 2020). What in the world is this saying? That somehow Utahns are less likely to die once they have contracted the virus and that this h…

I don’t see a date on the article - maybe it was written before Utah got into its latest surge in cases.

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#32
post #3

> Although few might expect a consistently Republican, low-tax state like Utah to lead the way in [income homogeneity]... One article isn't a showstopper, but I really wish this didn't surprise people so much. Taxes are taking away people's surplus (I've often heard 'they don't need the money' come up in arguments about taxes, for example) and invest it in government. That means that if the government fails to do som…

If there is a distrust in government misusing taxes, i wonder why the solution is to have less taxes, as opposed to fixing the government? I'm not being snarky I'm just genuinely curious why that is the knee jerk reaction.

It's a good question, and much of it comes from this: most people don't agree on what the government should do with taxes, especially at the detailed implementation level. Also, as you tax people, well, freedom isn't very useful without the financial means to exercise said freedom.

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#33

Homogeneous. High trust. Purpose and meaning from religion. Conservative family centric values. This is not surprising at all. I wish more Americans had this, I wish I did.

Agree, this should surprise no one. I wish we had a Utah I could move to.

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#34
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a problem that is solved much better in many other similarly-wealthy countries (see Norway, Switzerland) or pretty much all the other first world countries. It does not have to be perfect, it only has to be better.

Most of those countries have very homogenous populations. You also don’t hear about the bad stuff because unliked the United States they don’t have their dirty laundry being broadcast across every available medium 24/7/365.

What are you getting at? How is having homogeneous population causes less corruption in government? There are many asian and african countries with homogeneous population that are extremely corrupt.

Other countries do have 24/7 TV channels and other media.

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and at least from an outsider's point of view their society seems to work pretty well. Narrator: It doesn't and is heavily subsidized, simultaneously making non-compliance harder to reconcile. It is impossible to discern if someone is making a satire of their religion, is an actual Mormon, or is an actual Mormon questioning the absurdities of their society.

heavily subsidized Subsidised by whom?

The families/community and church. Or the church, families/community. It is all interrelated. Hard for people to make other choices that mean being outside of that support system.

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#36
I spent a year at a startup that had Utah roots (half the employees came from BYU). The CEO already had an 8 figure exit from a prior company he co-founded.

It was a unique pleasure working there... many small companies tout this, but it really did feel like an extended family. Such an aura of positivity and comraderie really helped morale in the face of a handful of make or break issues we faced during my time.

And despite the obvious roots of the company, not a whiff of anything religious or political was mentioned or hinted at, though people’s personal lives were regularly discussed and shared.

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a problem that is solved much better in many other similarly-wealthy countries (see Norway, Switzerland) or pretty much all the other first world countries. It does not have to be perfect, it only has to be better.

Most of those countries have very homogenous populations. You also don’t hear about the bad stuff because unliked the United States they don’t have their dirty laundry being broadcast across every available medium 24/7/365.

[deleted]

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#38
post #34
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those countries have very homogenous populations. You also don’t hear about the bad stuff because unliked the United States they don’t have their dirty laundry being broadcast across every available medium 24/7/365.

What are you getting at? How is having homogeneous population causes less corruption in government? There are many asian and african countries with homogeneous population that are extremely corrupt. Other countries do have 24/7 TV channels and other media.

I think the assessment should be paired variables of homogeneous populations AND small populations, since countries in Asia and Africa are counter examples, however, Denmark and other countries touted as good examples are both homogeneous and small in population compared to the US.

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#39
post #3

> Although few might expect a consistently Republican, low-tax state like Utah to lead the way in [income homogeneity]... One article isn't a showstopper, but I really wish this didn't surprise people so much. Taxes are taking away people's surplus (I've often heard 'they don't need the money' come up in arguments about taxes, for example) and invest it in government. That means that if the government fails to do som…

Taxes aren't the issue. It's how people are taxed. Income tax is just one way people are taxed and they aren't the ONLY type of tax on income (despite people using the word tax to mean income tax). We have social security tax, payroll tax, sales tax, capital gains tax, estate tax, property tax, and (maybe possibly a wealth tax in the future). And that's just individual taxes.

People say this all the time and it is false: California is a high tax state. No it isn't. It is a high Income tax state. It is an extremely low property tax state.

To put this in perspective, I live in Boston and my mom lives in California. She owns > $3 million dollars worth of property that she pays 1% tax on when she bought it (for around 500K total) so an effective property tax rate of .16%. In Texas she would be paying 3% property taxes which 1800% percent more. She also gets depreciation on the rental property that is marked up to when some it got transferred to her so she gets depreciation amortized over 18 years at ~2.5 million valuation. She also collects social security, a pension from a previous government job, and rental income. All unearned. Some of the rental income comes from Section 8 and other welfare programs (paid for by young workers). Let alone medicare which she will certainly get way more out than she ever put in.

I on the other hand, make ~190K a year. One year I got lucky with stocks/bitcoin. I've been paying in the 250K income tax bracket for 3/4 years. I've also paid >5% state income taxes every year on that money. I've paid double or triple my mom's taxes every year despite her making total earnings including investments way above me. ON top of that I have high payroll taxes, sales taxes, and no deductions. I live in a crappy apartment (near a bunch of frat houses) that costs 2K a month (a little less than my mom's mortgage on a house worth $1.7 million).

For young people that have no property and income we are in an awful position. All we hear is increase income taxes, but that is the only way we are moving up the socio-economic ladder. We have many types of inequality in the US, but the most extreme is age-related inequality. Older people have almost all the money in America. The largest generation now is the millennials and they hold Its no wonder that younger and middle class people are flocking to places like Texas where they can afford a house (because property taxes prevent money flooding into real estate), and can actually get ahead because of little to no state income taxes.

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#40

Homogeneous. High trust. Purpose and meaning from religion. Conservative family centric values. This is not surprising at all. I wish more Americans had this, I wish I did.

The purpose and meaning only work if you're bought in 100%. The religion is very intolerant of difference of thought. I spent years in it and was never happy.
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