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Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

americanaffairsjournal.org

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Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#21

Post by cpursley »

zucker42 wrote: post #9
postingpals wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is a distrust in government misusing taxes, i wonder why the solution is to have less taxes, as opposed to fixing the government? I'm not being snarky I'm just genuinely curious why that is the knee jerk reaction.

There's a major ideological divide over whether fixing the government is possible.

Swap government with "big monopolistic corporation" and it begins to make sense why reform of large human organizations while not impossible, is an uphill battle.

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#22

Post by BellLabradors »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #12
jansan wrote: post #11

You can say about the Mormon religion whatever you want, but they are fascinating people, and at least from an outsider's point of view their society seems to work pretty well. Living in Europe I have not met many people from Utah in my life, but those young Mormon missionaries that try to talk to you on the street always seem to be very well mannered, friendly people. If they didn't have that strange religion I coul…

Speaking as an exmo: you're correct, but also keep in mind that hiding the hurt and putting on a good face are also part of the religion. There's a reason why the cosmetic surgery billboard ads in Utah are omnipresent, and why anti-depressant usage is so high. There are absolutely some positive things about the faith, but the darker aspects are not as easily visible.

This doesn't negate your point, but part of the reason for higher anti-depressant usage is that they are less effective at altitude[0].

[0]https://unews.utah.edu/common-antidepressents-are-less-effec...

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#23

Post by dcolkitt »

postingpals wrote: post #5
roenxi wrote: post #3

> Although few might expect a consistently Republican, low-tax state like Utah to lead the way in [income homogeneity]... One article isn't a showstopper, but I really wish this didn't surprise people so much. Taxes are taking away people's surplus (I've often heard 'they don't need the money' come up in arguments about taxes, for example) and invest it in government. That means that if the government fails to do som…

If there is a distrust in government misusing taxes, i wonder why the solution is to have less taxes, as opposed to fixing the government? I'm not being snarky I'm just genuinely curious why that is the knee jerk reaction.

Who’s to say that cutting taxes isn’t the best route to fixing the government.

When institutions are systematically overfunded they tend to grow fat and entitled. Ironically they end up doing less with more. Trimming the budget enforces discipline and builds institutional knowledge around how to operate lean and execute efficiently.

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#25

Post by Buttons840 »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #17
zepto wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixing the government isn’t a ‘solution’. It’s a generally unsolved problem.

It's a problem that is solved much better in many other similarly-wealthy countries (see Norway, Switzerland) or pretty much all the other first world countries. It does not have to be perfect, it only has to be better.

It's a good answer to the question though. The comment isn't necessarily in support of low taxes, but you have to admit "did I pay less tax?" is much easier to answer than "is the government functioning well?"

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#26

Post by throw0101a »

roenxi wrote: post #3

> Although few might expect a consistently Republican, low-tax state like Utah to lead the way in [income homogeneity]... One article isn't a showstopper, but I really wish this didn't surprise people so much. Taxes are taking away people's surplus (I've often heard 'they don't need the money' come up in arguments about taxes, for example) and invest it in government. That means that if the government fails to do som…

> One article isn't a showstopper, but I really wish this didn't surprise people so much.

It is surprising because given the rest of the "Red" states' records, Utah is an outlier:

> Eighteen of the 19 poorest states have legislatures where both chambers are Republican controlled. New Mexico (46th richest, fifth poorest) is Democratic. But there isn’t another blue or purple state until you get to purple Maine (31st richest, 20th poorest) with its “split” legislature of one party in each chamber. All the states in between (such as Tennessee and Florida) are Republican, both chambers. So is Michigan, where Republicans hold all high state offices (where Donald Trump won in 2016). Above New Mexico, you jump all the way to middle of the pack Vermont (27th richest, 24th poorest) to find a state with both legislative chambers held by Democrats.

> But all five richest states have both legislative chambers controlled by Democrats – Maryland, New Jersey, Hawaii, Massachusetts and Connecticut. Overall, Democrats dominate the 20 richest states.

* https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/2018/10/21/mi...

> The people have had the resources they would use to deal with it diverted. Low tax scenarios are much more fault tolerant. High taxes won't necessarily promote equality or great outcomes.

When there are haves and have-nots, often expressed in (e.g.) a high Gini coefficient, things generally do not improve for the have-nots over time. As the 20th century has shown, especially in the post-Gilded Age post-WW2 era, taxing to fund social programs tends to improve a society in many ways.

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#27

Post by ericmay »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #17
zepto wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixing the government isn’t a ‘solution’. It’s a generally unsolved problem.

It's a problem that is solved much better in many other similarly-wealthy countries (see Norway, Switzerland) or pretty much all the other first world countries. It does not have to be perfect, it only has to be better.

Most of those countries have very homogenous populations. You also don’t hear about the bad stuff because unliked the United States they don’t have their dirty laundry being broadcast across every available medium 24/7/365.

Re: Utah’s Economic Exceptionalism

#29

Post by goatinaboat »

vmception wrote: post #18
jansan wrote: post #11

You can say about the Mormon religion whatever you want, but they are fascinating people, and at least from an outsider's point of view their society seems to work pretty well. Living in Europe I have not met many people from Utah in my life, but those young Mormon missionaries that try to talk to you on the street always seem to be very well mannered, friendly people. If they didn't have that strange religion I coul…

> and at least from an outsider's point of view their society seems to work pretty well. Narrator: It doesn't and is heavily subsidized, simultaneously making non-compliance harder to reconcile. It is impossible to discern if someone is making a satire of their religion, is an actual Mormon, or is an actual Mormon questioning the absurdities of their society.

heavily subsidized

Subsidised by whom?

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