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Fastly hires entire Wasmtime team from Mozilla

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Re: Fastly hires entire Wasmtime team from Mozilla

#31
post #27
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, the acquihire you went through was poorly implemented, and the pay reduction disrespectful.

I think their more general point still stands, though; why would you expect a company trying to "sell" their employees to negotiate in the employees' best interests rather than that of the company itself?

That’s why in football there are 3 parties to a transfer deal: the two clubs and the player’s agent.

In a regular company trying to sell a whole chunk of workers, that should probably be a union. Which is indeed what happens in many European countries when this sort of thing happens.

Re: Fastly hires entire Wasmtime team from Mozilla

#32
post #21

I have mixed feelings about this. In one side, I'm happy that some of the people affected by the Mozilla layoffs have now secured a job. On the other side, now almost all the power of the WASI standard is concentrated into the Fastly corporation (with wider penetration thanks to the WASI integration in Rust). The main and only player of the Bytecode Alliance becomes Fastly as well (as Mozilla is out of the server-sid…

surely you have a better example of your gripe than closing a GH issue on the logo design... the whole conversation on your end seems petty and toxic, at first glance.

[deleted]

Re: Fastly hires entire Wasmtime team from Mozilla

#33
post #21

I have mixed feelings about this. In one side, I'm happy that some of the people affected by the Mozilla layoffs have now secured a job. On the other side, now almost all the power of the WASI standard is concentrated into the Fastly corporation (with wider penetration thanks to the WASI integration in Rust). The main and only player of the Bytecode Alliance becomes Fastly as well (as Mozilla is out of the server-sid…

surely you have a better example of your gripe than closing a GH issue on the logo design... the whole conversation on your end seems petty and toxic, at first glance.

If you don't see any issue on a corporation having most of the control over a spec, then I guess there isn't anything I can say that will convince you.

> the whole conversation on your end seems petty and toxic, at first glance

That's a first! Can you expand on that? Thanks!

https://github.com/WebAssembly/WASI/issues/3

Re: Fastly hires entire Wasmtime team from Mozilla

#35

My money was on Cloudflare to have hired them wholesale. Regardless, congratulations to everyone involved! This deal has got me thinking... whether a right way to "lay-off" a supremely talented bunch is to actually see if other companies are willing to offer them jobs? Kind of how player transfers happen in Football (soccer). Either the team goes to the newer company wholesale or you help find your engineers suitable…

I don't think cloudflare does WASM @ edge no?

Re: Fastly hires entire Wasmtime team from Mozilla

#36
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

surely you have a better example of your gripe than closing a GH issue on the logo design... the whole conversation on your end seems petty and toxic, at first glance.

If you don't see any issue on a corporation having most of the control over a spec, then I guess there isn't anything I can say that will convince you. > the whole conversation on your end seems petty and toxic, at first glance That's a first! Can you expand on that? Thanks! https://github.com/WebAssembly/WASI/issues/3

I'm replying here as a total independant, because you asked for a response :)

Honestly, a logo for a project is both a huge thing, and a massive timesink. Your responses read that you just want to take over choosing the logo ("I'm happy to take on the responsibility of organizing it."). Then you seem to want to make this a whole issue encapsulating the problems with wasm (I am of course just reading one issue, not the many related problems)

Re: Fastly hires entire Wasmtime team from Mozilla

#37
post #21

I have mixed feelings about this. In one side, I'm happy that some of the people affected by the Mozilla layoffs have now secured a job. On the other side, now almost all the power of the WASI standard is concentrated into the Fastly corporation (with wider penetration thanks to the WASI integration in Rust). The main and only player of the Bytecode Alliance becomes Fastly as well (as Mozilla is out of the server-sid…

surely you have a better example of your gripe than closing a GH issue on the logo design... the whole conversation on your end seems petty and toxic, at first glance.

Some context from that thread I find important (I’m a bystander not involved in any way):

> We would need to work with a lawyer to determine the IP issues around this. It’s possible that just using the same policy as for the WebAssembly logo works, but I know that various organizations have grown more concerned about IP in this space since then.

> This is in no small part because your company, Wasmer, attempted to register “WebAssembly” and “Wasm” as trademarks. The USPTO rejected the application, but I don’t think we can assume that attempts to register a brandmark for a WASI logo would be similarly rejected.

This doesn’t seem to be a he said she said situation; gp had the chance to defend himself and all he could come up was a very weak “The trademark requests were driven by our lawyers” (and what came after that was even more shameless if you ask me): https://github.com/WebAssembly/WASI/issues/3#issuecomment-71...

Given that context, I’d say the gp comment (especially the “personal bias” part) is likely motivated smearing.

Bottom line: don’t make up your mind just because it’s the top comment of an HN thread, or because the discrimination/racism card is played (racism card isn’t played here, it’s in the linked GH issue). If you want to form an opinion, read the other side first.

Re: Fastly hires entire Wasmtime team from Mozilla

#38

My money was on Cloudflare to have hired them wholesale. Regardless, congratulations to everyone involved! This deal has got me thinking... whether a right way to "lay-off" a supremely talented bunch is to actually see if other companies are willing to offer them jobs? Kind of how player transfers happen in Football (soccer). Either the team goes to the newer company wholesale or you help find your engineers suitable…

I don't think cloudflare does WASM @ edge no?

They do. Their Workers product supports JS and WASM (but they seem to be less active when it comes to spec development around it etc)

Re: Fastly hires entire Wasmtime team from Mozilla

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't completely understand your second point there, because I'm not necessarily talking about full-system emulation. Just userspace emulation. So, why can't RISC-V be a sandbox? It's just loading a normal ELF into a virtual memory. The first point is news to me, but I suppose you can build anything you want in an open ISA too. It looks like each object is like a shared object with an import and export table that c…

Had an idea of trying to "script" things for games, the idea was to use a the WASM backend of a regular C/C++ compiler to generate code that could be loaded dynamically and share structures (ignoring sandbox for this) so that testing could be done seamlessly, sadly WASM seems to be 32bit for the time being (atleast for Clang, dunno about GCC but that has other issues), also looked at Risc-V and missing export/import…

Sounds awesome. I have some abstractions for making interfacing easier, but I don't have any auto-generated structures.

https://github.com/fwsGonzo/rvscript

I have done that here. Example:

    APICALL(api_math_smoothstep)
    {
        auto [edge0, edge1, x] = machine.sysargs  ();
        x = std::clamp((x - edge0) / (edge1 - edge0), 0.0f, 1.0f);
        machine.cpu.registers().getfl(10).set_float(x * x * (3 - 2 * x));
        return 0;
    }
"machine" is an argument to each system call handler, so you can have multiple machines for many purposes. For example, I suspect you can use a machine as a savegame - because they are serializable.

Re: Fastly hires entire Wasmtime team from Mozilla

#40
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't completely understand your second point there, because I'm not necessarily talking about full-system emulation. Just userspace emulation. So, why can't RISC-V be a sandbox? It's just loading a normal ELF into a virtual memory. The first point is news to me, but I suppose you can build anything you want in an open ISA too. It looks like each object is like a shared object with an import and export table that c…

The wasm paper covers these issues, and is short and pretty readable: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=14979605902538775... tl;dr security introduces a lot of design constraints that RISC V doesn't have. section 2.3 on structured control flow: WebAssembly represents control flow differently from most stack machines. It does not offer simple jumps but instead provides structured control flow constructs more…

You don't have to have the executable code in-memory for RISC-V emulation.
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