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Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

bbc.com

31–40 of 371 posts

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#31
post #3

FTA: 'The name Novichok means "newcomer" in Russian' No it doesn't. Novichok means "amateur, noob". Sigh.

Well, those are mostly the same. Noob (newbie, n00b) comes from newcomer/novice. Amateur I'm not sure how it fits in there. I think BBC is just using the synonym that the most people would understand (newcomer vs noob, everyone gets the first, some will not understand the second)

Etymologically it goes "new" -> "newbie" -> "noob". "Novice" is from latin, and while it does share the same root as "new" it does so way back in proto-Indo-European.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#32
post #23

Maybe I'm too skeptical, but this seems a bit too obvious to me. Why would you try to poison someone with no real threat to you and risk him becoming a martyr, using a method that immediately brings you to mind, with a nerve agent that is also strongly linked to you?

Russia knows no one is going to do anything about it. This method lets people know what tools they are willing to use on an adversary. And it’s also a signature “we did it” so you don’t have to guess who’s after you. It serves as a warning to any upstarts as well. It’s not all that different from the Ndraghetta bombings up and down Italy in the late XX cent.

I'm thinking, if they wanted to do it quietly, we wouldn't all be reading about it now.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#33

Maybe I'm too skeptical, but this seems a bit too obvious to me. Why would you try to poison someone with no real threat to you and risk him becoming a martyr, using a method that immediately brings you to mind, with a nerve agent that is also strongly linked to you?

> Maybe I'm too skeptical, but this feels like a false flag thing to me. Why would you try to poison someone with no real threat to you and risk him becoming a martyr, using a method that immediately brings you to mind, with a nerve agent that is also strongly linked to you?

Russia assassinates even unimportant people for revenge and intimidation. For instance: they hired assassins to kill a bunch of nobodies in Ukraine in 2016 because they'd helped supply Georgia with Ukraine-made antiaircraft weapons that had been used against Russia when they invaded in 2008.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/31/world/europe/russian-assa...:

> Russia Ordered a Killing That Made No Sense. Then the Assassin Started Talking.

> ...The war lasted only five days and ended with a crushing victory for Moscow. But in many ways, the conflict was an embarrassment for Russia’s intelligence services. Years earlier, Ukraine had secretly sold sophisticated antiaircraft systems to Georgia, allowing for the effective defense that I had seen....

> For Mr. Putin — who has described Russians and Ukrainians as “one people” — it was an act of bloody treachery.

> “We don’t know who decided to deliver equipment and weapons from Ukraine during the conflict, but whoever it was, that person made a huge mistake,” Mr. Putin said at a news conference shortly after the war.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#34
post #2

cant say im surprised honestly. as sad as it is, Messing with Putin himself rarely leads to a positive outcome.

The man is ex-KGB, installed himself in power for life and somehow his critics have a way of getting killed or tripping on some soviet nerve agents.

Merkel of Germany has been chancellor since 2005 (15 years) Putin has been president since 2000 with 4 years break (16 years).

So technically he is not THAT bad in comparison.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#35

Maybe I'm too skeptical, but this seems a bit too obvious to me. Why would you try to poison someone with no real threat to you and risk him becoming a martyr, using a method that immediately brings you to mind, with a nerve agent that is also strongly linked to you?

They're Russian. They work differently...

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#36
post #3

FTA: 'The name Novichok means "newcomer" in Russian' No it doesn't. Novichok means "amateur, noob". Sigh.

So it's more like "incompetent newcomer?"

Wouldn't say that the word implies "incompetent". "Kto na noven'kogo" is a known phrase, "noven'kii" is here practically synonym to "novichok", and there is no incompetence - rather novelty.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#37

Maybe I'm too skeptical, but this seems a bit too obvious to me. Why would you try to poison someone with no real threat to you and risk him becoming a martyr, using a method that immediately brings you to mind, with a nerve agent that is also strongly linked to you?

If it was, you would expect the Russians to be doing all they can to find who actually did it, people getting fired, etc. Navalny almost certainly was under 24/7 surveillance. You also would expect the best doctors to be made available for him in Russia.

We haven't seen any of that. Your version of events seems highly unlikely.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The man is ex-KGB, installed himself in power for life and somehow his critics have a way of getting killed or tripping on some soviet nerve agents.

Merkel of Germany has been chancellor since 2005 (15 years) Putin has been president since 2000 with 4 years break (16 years). So technically he is not THAT bad in comparison.

> 4 years break

Right...

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, those are mostly the same. Noob (newbie, n00b) comes from newcomer/novice. Amateur I'm not sure how it fits in there. I think BBC is just using the synonym that the most people would understand (newcomer vs noob, everyone gets the first, some will not understand the second)

Guessing it was amateur in the derogatory sense.

If you are curious: no, "новичок" is not derogatory. Much less derogatory than a "noob", anyway, and doesn't necessarily mean incompetence. Like, say there is a hiking club with pretty much the same people going on hikes for the last 5 years, and somebody joined this club last week — this person would be called "новичок" in a friendly manner.

So, yeah, "newcomer" is actually a good translation.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#40
I wouldn't be so quick to point the finger at Putin or a government conspiracy personally. There are a lot of powerful billionaires in Russia who exist thanks to Putin and it seems plausible that one of them, given their vested interest in keeping their patron in charge, might have poisoned the man.
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