Bill Gates advocates for stopping end-to-end encryption • Hacker News Board

Re: Bill Gates advocates for stopping end-to-end encryption

#31

Post by pwinnski » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 6:38 PM UTC

The actual quote, without breathless editorializing, is:

"The irony is that it’s digital social media that allows this kind of titillating, oversimplistic explanation of, 'OK, there’s just an evil person, and that explains all of this.' And when you have [ ] encrypted, there is no way to know what it is. I personally believe government should not allow those types of lies or fraud or child pornography."

I've removed Wired's additions within brackets, and suddenly it doesn't seem at all clear Gates is talking about end-to-end encryption directly. It might be said that is the only way to accomplish his wish, but when I first read the article I thought he could as easily be talking about legal remedies as anything else.

Re: Bill Gates advocates for stopping end-to-end encryption

#32

Post by CryptoPunk » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 1:15 AM UTC

ACS_Solver wrote: post #14

CryptoPunk wrote: post #6

He didn't outright advocate for it from the interview that I believe motivated this article, but he did pretty strongly imply that end-to-end encryption facilitates crime and shouldn't be allowed: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/bill-gates-lies-spread-faste... >“Some of the messages on their platform, they don’t even see because of the encryption on WhatsApp,” Gates said. “In order to not have any responsibility, the…

That's not how I read it. The quote is Gates talking about Facebook. My interpretation isn't that he's saying E2EE is bad, but rather he's saying that E2EE is a convenient way for Facebook to avoid/deny responsibility for things being spread through parts of the platform that they own.

I can't see any implication from that position with respect to E2EE except that these platforms shouldn't be allowed to have it.

Re: Bill Gates advocates for stopping end-to-end encryption

#33

Post by CryptoPunk » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 1:18 AM UTC

toyg wrote: post #16

CryptoPunk wrote: post #6

He didn't outright advocate for it from the interview that I believe motivated this article, but he did pretty strongly imply that end-to-end encryption facilitates crime and shouldn't be allowed: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/bill-gates-lies-spread-faste... >“Some of the messages on their platform, they don’t even see because of the encryption on WhatsApp,” Gates said. “In order to not have any responsibility, the…

His position doesn't seem to be a blanket "e2e should be banned", but rather that social networks have a responsibility to police discourse on their platforms and they've used e2e as a mean to avoid that responsibility. I personally think it's a red herring - even where there is no e2e, like on regular FB, it's extremely difficult to police user-generated content and fake news (a category that arguably includes TFA).…

His position with respect to E2EE seems to be that social networks and other communication platforms shouldn't be allowed to have it.

It's pretty clear what his philosophical outlook is, and what he would say about ANY widely adopted use-cases of E2EE.

Re: Bill Gates advocates for stopping end-to-end encryption

#34

Post by CryptoPunk » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 1:20 AM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #11

CryptoPunk wrote: post #6

He didn't outright advocate for it from the interview that I believe motivated this article, but he did pretty strongly imply that end-to-end encryption facilitates crime and shouldn't be allowed: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/bill-gates-lies-spread-faste... >“Some of the messages on their platform, they don’t even see because of the encryption on WhatsApp,” Gates said. “In order to not have any responsibility, the…

This is very disappointing. My response for people on this side is this: Great, hand me your unlocked phone. I promise not to share anything with anyone else.

Gates has never shied away from the idea of amassing enormous power over others to himself and others he trusts.

Re: Bill Gates advocates for stopping end-to-end encryption

#35

Post by DaniloDias » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 1:35 AM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #28

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sad to see a heterdox opinion that's articulated clearly without being needlessly abrasive get downvoted into oblivion

Wow - you don't think "Bill Gates’ narcissism is really on display lately" is needlessly abrasive?

It may be uncharitable to diagnose a stranger. I have family with narcissism issues. It is nakedly obvious to me gates has the same issue. You kinda can’t blame him, given his financial status- but there are honest scientific people who disagree with his approach and he’s framing them all as conspiracy theorists.