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Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

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Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#31

Post by Jabbles »

bdcravens wrote: post #24
LeoPanthera wrote: post #17

I feel like I'm in the minority that thinks this is a good idea. I can easily see how some people might be made uncomfortable by the existing wording, but more importantly, I can see no downside to changing it. It will be a very small amount of work for a very small amount of time and then everything will carry on as normal. If this helps make programming more inclusive, even in a small way, then I'm all for it.

You're right, nothing wrong with it. No more than changing the name of all the nonsense gems and npm modules to something more semantic. However, I think the pushback is that this is the response to becoming "woke", and for those struggling with the issues facing PoCs, it feels like more corporate shallowness.

If the pushback were against corporate shallowness, you'd expect at least one comment would include a suggestion of what they could do instead.

But the comments here so far don't seem to do that, they seem to just be against this, with no alternative.

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#32

Post by neltnerb »

Jabbles wrote: post #15
bdcravens wrote: post #10

In discussions about this on social media, there's significant push back from those who are actually affected by the issues BLM is fighting for, who feel moves like this are more white guilt with no real change for what really matters. I'm sure an at-risk youth, when pulled over by two white police officers, is grateful that a bunch of highly paid programmers aren't subjected to politically incorrect variable names.…

Please provide a link to support your assertion that "the BLM core" is giving "significant push back".

Why would anyone waste time complaining about this, especially BLM organizers?

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#34

Post by phnofive »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #17

I feel like I'm in the minority that thinks this is a good idea. I can easily see how some people might be made uncomfortable by the existing wording, but more importantly, I can see no downside to changing it. It will be a very small amount of work for a very small amount of time and then everything will carry on as normal. If this helps make programming more inclusive, even in a small way, then I'm all for it.

If it is effective and if it is that simple to implement, I’d agree with you.

My concern is that this is motivated by the politician’s fallacy.

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#35

Post by treebornfrog »

fooblat wrote: post #28

I worked for redhat in a past life and I recall having to do this for documentation back in 2003-2004 to comply with a California law[0] regarding vendors to the government. It's been a long time but I'm pretty sure I remember changing "master/slave" to "primary/secondary" in a bunch of bind docs. 0. (this might be it) https://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/11/26/master.term.re...

I feel as though primary/secondary doesn't define the relationship properly.

I, for one, think this is all getting ridiculous now.

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#36

Post by bonoetmalo »

Jabbles wrote: post #15
bdcravens wrote: post #10

In discussions about this on social media, there's significant push back from those who are actually affected by the issues BLM is fighting for, who feel moves like this are more white guilt with no real change for what really matters. I'm sure an at-risk youth, when pulled over by two white police officers, is grateful that a bunch of highly paid programmers aren't subjected to politically incorrect variable names.…

Please provide a link to support your assertion that "the BLM core" is giving "significant push back".

I think maybe a better question/support would be evidence that anybody besides corporate diversity teams have said this is a problem.

To be clear- I also think the terms are problematic and my company is also pushing for it. But I think it's worth asking whether we're speaking over actual black people. It does give off pretty heavy white guilt vibes.

Edit: I think a good example of this is the fact that my company is pushing for this change but still doesn't have a single black person at the VP+ levels. It's pandering, and distracting from the core problem.

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#37

Post by cs02rm0 »

redog wrote: post #9

Why not owner or subject? Are accountants not to refer to master records? Do we have to stop killing child processes?

Probably, eventually.

Just today I've caught myself talking about black boxes, no skin off my nose and Chinese whispers, wondering if those are on a list somewhere or if they will be.

I'd say it all feels like papering over the cracks, but the paper isn't even covering the cracks.

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#38

Post by bdcravens »

neltnerb wrote: post #32
Jabbles wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please provide a link to support your assertion that "the BLM core" is giving "significant push back".

Why would anyone waste time complaining about this, especially BLM organizers?

The feeling of shallowness. It's the equivalence of a corporation showing their support for DREAMers by adding tex-mex options in the company cafeteria.

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#39

Post by treebornfrog »

entropea wrote: post #3

What does stuff like this actually do except give them some good PR? It doesn't end racism or help black lives at all. It seems like a corporate facade of change while ignoring the real material issues of life for black inidividuals that these major protests pointed out.

Underrated comment.

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#40

Post by Jabbles »

neltnerb wrote: post #32
Jabbles wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please provide a link to support your assertion that "the BLM core" is giving "significant push back".

Why would anyone waste time complaining about this, especially BLM organizers?

I would be surprised, but I am giving the OP the chance to show they are not full of shit.
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