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Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

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Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#11

Post by RegnisGnaw »

entropea wrote: post #3

What does stuff like this actually do except give them some good PR? It doesn't end racism or help black lives at all. It seems like a corporate facade of change while ignoring the real material issues of life for black inidividuals that these major protests pointed out.

That's exactly it. It reminds me of some aspects of China during The Great Leap Forward. The grain production quotas set by Mao was completely unrealistic. However if the local leader said it, they would be branded as "anti-revolutionary" and sent off to reeducation camps. So the local leader lied and said they achieved the quota and was praised by the party. This lead to other village leader saying they exceeded the quota (by more and more over time) so that they seem more revolutionary (pro-party).

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#12

Post by ghastmaster »

entropea wrote: post #3

What does stuff like this actually do except give them some good PR? It doesn't end racism or help black lives at all. It seems like a corporate facade of change while ignoring the real material issues of life for black inidividuals that these major protests pointed out.

It aids in the defense during the next discrimination lawsuit, as it can no longer be used as evidence to support a plaintiff's complaint.

Edit:

> What does stuff like this actually do except give them some good PR?

Source linked in OP article:

> The request -- which has some suppliers furious and others busy re-labeling components -- came after an unidentified worker spotted a videotape machine carrying devices labeled "master" and "slave" and filed a discrimination complaint with the county's Office of Affirmative Action Compliance.

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#13

Post by secondaryditto »

redog wrote: post #9

Why not owner or subject? Are accountants not to refer to master records? Do we have to stop killing child processes?

"I'm just waiting for Maria to kill her children" is a valid tech sentence, but probably not something that should be uttered in a public setting. :)

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#14

Post by [deleted] »

entropea wrote: post #3

What does stuff like this actually do except give them some good PR? It doesn't end racism or help black lives at all. It seems like a corporate facade of change while ignoring the real material issues of life for black inidividuals that these major protests pointed out.

[deleted]

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#15

Post by Jabbles »

bdcravens wrote: post #10

In discussions about this on social media, there's significant push back from those who are actually affected by the issues BLM is fighting for, who feel moves like this are more white guilt with no real change for what really matters. I'm sure an at-risk youth, when pulled over by two white police officers, is grateful that a bunch of highly paid programmers aren't subjected to politically incorrect variable names.…

Please provide a link to support your assertion that "the BLM core" is giving "significant push back".

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#16

Post by stuff4ben »

I remember talking to CloudBees reps back around 2013 when we were going to purchase Jenkins Enterprise licenses and they made a conscious effort to refer to build slaves as build agents or build nodes. I applauded them at the time for that even though there is still a lot of referencing of "slave" in documentation and blogs. I don't have a problem with "master" but I do have a problem with "slave" and I'd like to eradicate it.

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#17

Post by LeoPanthera »

I feel like I'm in the minority that thinks this is a good idea.

I can easily see how some people might be made uncomfortable by the existing wording, but more importantly, I can see no downside to changing it.

It will be a very small amount of work for a very small amount of time and then everything will carry on as normal. If this helps make programming more inclusive, even in a small way, then I'm all for it.

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#18

Post by [deleted] »

entropea wrote: post #3

What does stuff like this actually do except give them some good PR? It doesn't end racism or help black lives at all. It seems like a corporate facade of change while ignoring the real material issues of life for black inidividuals that these major protests pointed out.

[deleted]

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#19

Post by entropea »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #17

I feel like I'm in the minority that thinks this is a good idea. I can easily see how some people might be made uncomfortable by the existing wording, but more importantly, I can see no downside to changing it. It will be a very small amount of work for a very small amount of time and then everything will carry on as normal. If this helps make programming more inclusive, even in a small way, then I'm all for it.

How does it help black individuals though? Like how does it improve their lives, police brutality & prison reform, poverty, water quality?

Re: Red Hat to remove contentious terms like master and slave from its source code

#20

Post by brlewis »

entropea wrote: post #3

What does stuff like this actually do except give them some good PR? It doesn't end racism or help black lives at all. It seems like a corporate facade of change while ignoring the real material issues of life for black inidividuals that these major protests pointed out.

I'm not Black, but I don't think I need to be in order to answer your question.

I do my best software engineering when I'm undistracted. If I've recently been treated unfairly, that's a distraction. Anything that reminds me of the unfair incident is a distraction. If I were Black and experienced a racial incident where the words "master" or "slave" were involved, I can imagine those words reminding me of the incident and making it hard for me to work. Maybe I'd be able to compartmentalize by context; maybe I wouldn't.

I think this is analogous to bug chains leading to vulnerabilities. A bug by itself might not be a vulnerability, but it's worth fixing because it might be combined with other bugs in a way that's a vulnerability. Similarly, small issues can combine to become bigger issues.

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